BBC Choir of the Year

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  • Oldcrofter
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 226

    #16
    I watched the Finals yesterday on BBC 4. I thought the six choirs were pretty representative of the range of amateur choral singing in the UK. Since the question of movement often arises in comments about choral singing on these boards, I looked out for instances of this, although my main interest was listening to the musical quality of the choirs' performance.

    The last choir to perform, Ysgol Glanaethwy, is a performing arts school which operates outside of normal school hours, and used a great deal of theatrical movement - as you might expect - it's their raison d'etre. In festivals & competitions, in my experience, such performances by 'choirs' are very rare indeed. Perhaps they should not have chosen the Tippett 'Child of our Time' and were criticised publicly by an adjudicator for their performance.

    Surrey Hills Chamber Choir used witch-like movement in their last song ('Double, double, toil and trouble') but I thought it appropriate to the choice of song. The choice is the MD's and they are all experienced enough to know the 'risks'. However, the very rapid 'Rytmus' and 'She moved through the fair' were performed without movement and impressive choral technique.

    The Methodist College Girls from Belfast performed three songs without any movement apart from a finger pointed at the audience. Obviously a choir of excellent quality and wide experience - and success - in competitions. Very well done the young man accompanying - did I hear correctly - 13 years old ?

    The Oxford Gargoyles sing close harmony jazz a cappella, do so brilliantly and it is difficult to imagine how their style and repertoire could be performed without choreography. I think they must have been pretty close to being the winners.

    The junior age group was represented by the 60 or so voices of Lindley Jr. Sch. Huddersfield. Apart from the very limited use by five singers of simple bell-like instruments, they stood totally still during each of their three songs but with very expressive faces and a demanding repertoire. A joy to listen to.

    The eventual winners, Les Sirenes, brought a touch of ironic humour with one of the group, expecting marriage to the 'Soldier, soldier', had her posy ready for the ceremony, but sthheir vocal skills were fully tested with the bewildering changes of key and modulations demanded by Latham's arrangement. They followed this by Michael Neaum's beautiful arrangement of 'And so it goes'. I think all his many choral arrangements, mainly for the female voice, are absolute gems. The piano accompaniments are intricately interwoven and this song is no exception. Difficult to choose between Sirenes & Gargoyles - I'd have been happy with either.

    I was pleased to see arrangers credited in the subtitles, as well as MDs and accompanists in interviews. We should really give much more credit to arrangers who see the potential in a melody and transform it into jewels of even greater beauty for choirs to sing. The youngsters were very articulate in saying how much choral singing meant to them.

    Anyone else see the programme ?

    Comment

    • Mary Chambers
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 1963

      #17
      I saw it. I was impressed by the overall standard of singing, but not, on the whole, by the choice of repertoire. I could do without any of the movement, but it seems to be the way things are going in this sort of competition.

      I was most impressed by Les Sirènes, Surrey Hiils Chamber Choir and Lindley Junior School. I thought this last choir was quite remarkable for a primary school, and shows what can be achieved by a brilliant teacher who stretches the children's abilities to the utmost, without compromise. I just wish there were teachers like this in every primary school. I was least impressed by the Welsh choir, though I've quite liked their work on other occasions.

      "Soldier, soldier, won't you marry me?", sung most beautifully by Les Sirènes, is one of the first songs I remember, other than hymns, carols and songs for children. My infant school headmistress used to sing it to us, and I have great affection for it. She was an excellent performer who sometimes sang on children's radio programmes.
      Last edited by Mary Chambers; 24-11-12, 18:51. Reason: Edited to correct a typo I've only just noticed.

      Comment

      • ardcarp
        Late member
        • Nov 2010
        • 11102

        #18
        Anyone else see the programme ?
        Yes, I did. And I had heard the finalists' performances several times on steam radio and i-player.
        How do you compare or judge completely different groups of people/genres? I was surprised that some choirs were allowed to use mikes for soloists. Les Sirenes gave a polished performance, but I have a personal problem about what constitutes a 'choral sound' and having a group of (excellent) singers with soloistic voices doesn't cut the mustard for me. Yes, their arrangements were good, but lay easily within their capability, whereas most of the other choirs were pushing at the boundaries. The virtuosity of The Oxford Gargoyles was amazing.

        Some of the choreography clearly made some interesting viewing, BUT should it influence the judges'? Does it count as 'presentation' or 'communication'? IMV the Methodist College Choir (and the junior school choir for that matter) communicated extremely well without dancing.

        Maybe we need a separate competition for choirs that just sing; but that's unlikely to go down well with TV producers.

        Comment

        • Keraulophone
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 1945

          #19
          Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
          ...I have a personal problem about what constitutes a 'choral sound' and having a group of (excellent) singers with soloistic voices doesn't cut the mustard for me.
          ... Maybe we need a separate competition for choirs that just sing...
          Strongly agree with both points, and had to shut my eyes while listening to the choreographed numbers. My 10-year old daughter, who enjoys singing (but not dancing) in her school choir, wasn't impressed either. 'Choirs that just sing' used to be catered for on the radio in programmes such as 'Let the Peoples Sing'. The requirements of TV producers would seem to be another matter entirely.

          Comment

          • Mary Chambers
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 1963

            #20
            Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
            Les Sirenes gave a polished performance, but I have a personal problem about what constitutes a 'choral sound' and having a group of (excellent) singers with soloistic voices doesn't cut the mustard for me.
            I do see what you mean here, and I agree to a very great extent. I was surprised to find myself enjoying their performance so much. I was amazed by how professional they sounded.

            The Oxford Gargoyles were the ones I was unable to appreciate. I'm sure they were very good, but I just don't like that sort of music or performance.

            Comment

            • DracoM
              Host
              • Mar 2007
              • 12965

              #21
              Originally posted by Keraulophone View Post
              Strongly agree with both points, and had to shut my eyes while listening to the choreographed numbers. My 10-year old daughter, who enjoys singing (but not dancing) in her school choir, wasn't impressed either. 'Choirs that just sing' used to be catered for on the radio in programmes such as 'Let the Peoples Sing'. The requirements of TV producers would seem to be another matter entirely.
              Both postings hit the nail on the head. This is now 'Let the Peoples Sing' meeting 'X-Factor', i.e. the televisionisation of a radio competition has required treatments that demean both the music and the ensembles.

              Comment

              • Oldcrofter
                Full Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 226

                #22
                Didn't spot that, Ardcarp. Which choirs used mikes for soloists ? I would say that's definitely out in this sort of competition - should be clear in the rules.

                Comment

                • MrGongGong
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 18357

                  #23
                  TV demands narrative , the idea that it could be something else is sadly a lost argument, what is on TV is drama more or less ALL of TV is constructed in that way
                  not that i'm keen on it but it seems daft to complain that television is like, eerrrrr, television
                  surely most of us have had the experience of seeing things on TV that we know about and going "no, no ,no... it's not like that" ?
                  the fact is , is that it's ALL like that ...... that's the theatre of it
                  if you want something else , you have to go somewhere else


                  (i'm sure our underbridge cyclist knows who would do it much better )

                  Comment

                  • Oldcrofter
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 226

                    #24
                    Didn't you enjoy listening to any of the choirs, Draco ? Or any individual song or performance ?

                    Comment

                    • ardcarp
                      Late member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 11102

                      #25
                      Which choirs used mikes for soloists ?
                      The Welsh performing arts school did.

                      Comment

                      • MrGongGong
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 18357

                        #26
                        Originally posted by ardcarp View Post
                        The Welsh performing arts school did.
                        Surely they would have used Dafydd's and Geraint's ?

                        Comment

                        • Oldcrofter
                          Full Member
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 226

                          #27
                          Thanks, Ardcarp.

                          The relevant section of the rules:

                          "Choirs will not be amplified at the Audition stage. The Competition
                          Management will consider requests for amplification at the Finals only if the
                          choir normally performs in this way."

                          I think that's a very poor concession and should be quite unnecessary, even in a large concert hall.

                          Some festivals, like the one I'm involved in, allow a backing track (but certainly not microphones) for what we in our own festival term the category "Songs From the Shows" - we gave a great deal of thought and much debate before we allowed that (we don't have choirs performing - only young instrumentalists and singers). We don't allow costume or dance , and only one or two props - perhaps a hat or cane if appropriate to the performance.

                          In the category "Songs not from Shows" no recordings of accompaniment are allowed, nor in the instrumental classes, and again, certainly no microphones.

                          Comment

                          • DracoM
                            Host
                            • Mar 2007
                            • 12965

                            #28
                            Well, I was appalled to see microphones. And if I needed any more proof of where the BBC are bent on taking this competition, that was the moment. A huge number of young singers in this country now sing as if a microphone was natural and de rigeur, lacking projection and using the mic to do the job, they do not see blend so much as striving to be heard as the deal, and we do not need a BBC TV show to reinforce it, PARTICULARLY not when the show is apparently a CHORAL event.

                            Gargoyles were fantastic as en ensemble of individual singers - but as a CHORAL group? Hmm.
                            Did NOT endorse the winners at all.
                            Totally impossible, as ardcarp and others have said, to compare such hugely diverse ensembles.

                            Belfast Methodist were terrific, Lindley School Leeds were outstanding, Surrey Chamber Choir did not need the witches' hat / cloak silliness to demonstrate they were an excellent ensemble. For me a toss up between them and Lindley.

                            Comment

                            • ardcarp
                              Late member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 11102

                              #29
                              TV demands narrative , the idea that it could be something else is sadly a lost argument, what is on TV is drama more or less ALL of TV is constructed in that way
                              not that i'm keen on it but it seems daft to complain that television is like, eerrrrr, television
                              surely most of us have had the experience of seeing things on TV that we know about and going "no, no ,no... it's not like that" ?
                              the fact is , is that it's ALL like that ...... that's the theatre of it
                              if you want something else , you have to go somewhere else
                              It is perfectly possible to screen a musical event (yes, with cool camera work and all) without all the whooping and hooraying razz-ma-tazz. The trouble is, young people get the idea that life is one big party. Whereas behind the scenes of these excellent choirs (and in any other sphere where excellence is achieved) there is hard work, commitment, graft, sweat and tears. Per ardua ad alta. (No, I'm not mis-quoting it...that was my school motto.) I'm a right old blimp today aren't I?

                              Comment

                              • Gabriel Jackson
                                Full Member
                                • May 2011
                                • 686

                                #30
                                Originally posted by DracoM View Post
                                A huge number of young singers in this country now sing as if a microphone was natural and de rigeur, lacking projection and using the mic to do the job,
                                To be fair, for some kinds of singing a microphone (and microphone technique) are natural and necessary.

                                Comment

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