BBC Choir of the Year

[ardcarp]

OK, hands up...who listened to The BBC Choir of the Year Grand Final on The Choir? I was just about to bemoan the fact that it had been relegated to a niche slot ('niche' even for The Forum, I think) but notice that it will be featured on BBC4:

http://www.choiroftheyear.co.uk/

Hope it gets sensible treatment.

All the choirs were well-prepared and gave polished performances. There was slightly too much 'show' singing for my taste, but it was good of its kind. One 'show' choir gave us Tippett's Steal Away and I wish they hadn't. There were 'pop style' inflections throughout which were a big mistake. Not their fault, of course, but they should have done an out-and-out gospel arrangement of Steal Away and all would have been well. And the rest of their programme was to the manner born.

As always in competitions, how do you choose a winner from such diverse groups?

Here's the whole show:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01nt18j

[DracoM]

They've learnt like all X-Factor wannabes how to catch the judge's eye. Sorry, I thought it meretricious and a bit disheartening.
Not many of them offered a Bach motet, or a bit of Gabriel Jackson or Gesualdo, or even good jazz / swing, I noticed. Can't think why.

[Mary Chambers]

I haven't listened to much of it yet, but I'm not at all impressed by the list of music. The first thing I heard on iPlayer sounded quite good. Turned out it was a fill-in between Choral Evensong and The Choir - Merton College choir, nothing to do with the competition.

[ardcarp]

Turned out it was a fill-in between Choral Evensong and The Choir - Merton College choir, nothing to do with the competition.

Yes, I heard that too...a bit of Gombert, I think. Beautifully sung. Take a deep breath before the Tippett, Mary!

[Mary Chambers]

Take a deep breath before the Tippett, Mary!

Apparently it has 'choreography'. Ouch.

[Oldcrofter]

I find your comments, Draco, most "disheartening". To label the choirs 'X-Factor wannabees" and their performance 'meretricious' - by which I assume you mean superficial, insincere, tasteless etc. I believe is both untrue and unwarranted.

Did you listen to Surrey Hills singing Hrusovsky's 'Rytmus', Les Sirenes with Robert Latham's 'Oh Soldier Soldier' or Lindley Juniors with Bob Chilcott's 'Riddle' ? There was jazz -Duke Ellington's 'It don't mean a thing' - and there was beautifully sensitive singing in, for example, Michael Neaum's arrangement of 'And so it goes' by Les Sirenes, who, by the way, are actually students and graduates of the Royal Conservatoire of Scotland.

You are perfectly entitled to your frequently stated preference for cathedral and Oxbridge college choirs, but since you are a host of The Choir forum, I might suggest that there is another world of choral singing which deserves appreciation, whose singers, although young, are most certainly not X-Factor wannabes and whose performances are definitely not, in your carefully chosen terminology, 'meretricious'.

[french frank]

To label the choirs 'X-Factor wannabees"

To be fair (since he isn't here at the moment), what he said was that they had learnt how to catch the judge's eye - like X-Factor wannabes, which would refer to some visual aspect of their performance (catching the judge's eye?) rather than the singing itself. The choice of repertoire is another matter.

[DracoM]

FF says it exactly like it is.

I am not criticising their enthusiasm, nor their dedication, but I do indeed have a pretty rooted objection to shouty, clappy 'choreography' in presenting choral music in a competition that is specifically meant to target 'CHORAL SINGING'. In staged musicals, totally different matter. On Talent / X-Factor style shows, pushed to the extreme, those are exactly the kinds of gimmicks performers / ensembles use to catch the judges' eyes. As I said in my posting. What part does that have in a 'who's the best choir in Britain?' show? Might show the winning ensemble is the best at THAT kind of presentation - but 'BBC Choir of the Year'? Hmm. The choirs which enter it have learnt the hard way that to simply stand still and deliver does not make good telly, and thus is unlikely to make the cut. And in the last few years, outcomes proves that intuition to be correct. Drilled 'routines' with singing look more and more the biz.

And given the nature of the competition as we see it, the pieces chosen are geared to the number of pieces and the length of time they are allowed on stage, which does not leave them much time to explore and reveal. We are not likely to get Raautavara, Part, even Kodaly are we?

And I specifically mentioned jazz / swing etc. Huge wealth of material there, but few made much attempt to get int it.

As TV ENTERTAINMENT, spectacle, perfectly pleasant and acceptable, showing bundles of enthusiasm, dedication to rehearsal and teamwork discipline. As an examination of challenging choral singing, open to question.

[ardcarp]

It will be informative to see the Grand Final on BBC4 at 7.30pm on 23rd November.
There are obviously some judging criteria which some of us will see as legitimate and others not.
e.g. A choir should be judged on its sound alone (judges behind screens)
A choir should demonstrate an ability to communicate visually with its audience by facial expression and body language
A choir should use organised movements (choreography, corybantics) to enhance its impact

It's a difficult one, isn't it? Personally I think the criteria should be publicly stated for both entrants to the competition and to audiences (maybe to the judges themselves?) Otherwise one is trying to compare chalk with cheese.

[Oldcrofter]

I must admit I haven't seen the television broadcasts - I can only judge from the Radio 3 recording of the finals.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01nt18j

I can't perceive any "shouty, clappy choreography" in the recording. I presumed your comments were aimed at the finalists. I repeat my point from before:

Did you listen to Surrey Hills singing Hrusovsky's 'Rytmus', Les Sirenes with Robert Latham's 'Oh Soldier Soldier' or Lindley Juniors with Bob Chilcott's 'Riddle' ? There was jazz -Duke Ellington's 'It don't mean a thing' - and there was beautifully sensitive singing in, for example, Michael Neaum's arrangement of 'And so it goes' by Les Sirenes, who, by the way, are actually students and graduates of the Royal Conservatoire of Scotland.

It may be that you (and FF ?) were at the final and saw the performances. Which choirs were "meretricious" and X-Factor wannabees" ? I'm really interested to know.

[Oldcrofter]

Thanks for that info, Ardcarp re Final (televised) on 23rd Nov.

I've never seen any adjudicator at a festival behind a screen - legitimate for instrumental auditions certainly but probably not for vocal.
Communicate visually as well as musically ? Yes, definitely. Body language ? To a limited extent (walking on with confidence, good stance and posture etc)
Organised movement in competitive situation ? Hardly ever occurs in festivals & competitions I've attended . Adjudicators (on the whole) don't like it and MDs generally know this. However, I can quite see why choirs in a television show or series might put in movement, as do Barber's Shop groups, gospel choirs etc.

One of the youth choirs I have an association with never uses movement in a performance, either concerts or competitions. Another youth choir I know well use movement with some pieces (e.g. the Japanese song Sakura where it works beautifully), most usually in concerts but never in competition.

It will be interesting to see if my opinions of the finalists' choral performance is enhanced or spoilt by seeing them perform on television.

[ardcarp]

Oldcrofter. There haven't been any televised programmes yet (to my knowledge) and like you I've only heard things on the radio (in my case the Grand Final...twice). However, organised movements were very clearly described by Aled and his Swingle guests on The Choir.

[Oldcrofter]

Thanks again, Ardcarp. I just listened to the singing & fast-forwarded the commentary.

[ardcarp]

If organised movements are allowed..which they clearly were in the BBC COTY... then I gather The Oxford Gargoyles are pretty impressive. Their vocal performance certainly was on the steam radio, and I'm slightly surprised they didn't win on that basis. Apropos of nothing, I remember The Fair Sax (saxophone ensemble) did a lot of choreographed routines, and very entertaining they were too.

[Oldcrofter]

I think these two clips illustrate the point. Here, in 'Fields of Gold' and in festival competition, The Gargoyles move relatively little, and do so for expression.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1S4nZuoE1Y&feature=related

In this clip, "You've got a friend in me" (presumably in concert) movement is integral - for humorous and entertaining effect etc. And it's from a film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC15SRB8izA

If they performed in COTY that sort of movement, then yes, it could be considered out of place and an adjudicator might well mark them down for that reason. That's a risk they would take.