Choral Vespers from Westminster Cathedral 7th Nov 2012

[ardcarp]

Oh dear, Decantor, how complicated life is especially when one doesn't have certainties. You put it so well when you say 'my commitment to our monarchy is less than whole hearted', but I would have to say my commitment to known models of republicanism is less than whole-hearted too, and I am certainly no revolutionary. Would it be a good metaphor to suggest my moorings are unwillingly embedded in royalty's mud (albeit mud leased to the landed gentry) but that I would be no happier if the mud were administered by an egalitarian state?

I'm equally ambivalent about education...love the private sector but hate selection by pocket; about the welfare state...the true mark of a civilised society yet a killer of initiative; about politics...I'm in favour of big fiscal cake-makers but am unsure about how they should slice up their products.

So please accept me as a poor muddled individual who happens to like music a bit.

And talking of music, it is strange that many see music and the arts as a left-wingish sort of activity as evidenced by the Rubbras and Henzes, but MacMillan has quite publicly challenged that assumption.

Am I going off-topic....?

[DracoM]

< And talking of music, it is strange that many see music and the arts as a left-wingish sort of activity as evidenced by the Rubbras and Henzes, but MacMillan has quite publicly challenged that assumption.

Am I going off-topic....? >


No. And your thread about the Choirbook for the [The?] Queen is a very good place of discussion

There is real angst for many: is the Gove E-Bacc idea likely over the next decade to drive serious music-making in whatever genre to where only sustained personal financial sacrifices by well-meaning middle-class parents can maintain some of our finest musical initiatives and ensembles? Is this the intention? Or merely an unintended consequence of the initiative?

[Gabriel Jackson]

And talking of music, it is strange that many see music and the arts as a left-wingish sort of activity as evidenced by the Rubbras and Henzes, but MacMillan has quite publicly challenged that assumption.

Am I going off-topic....?

Because, by and large, it is? And James MacMillan used to be a socialist...

[teamsaint]

Oh dear, Decantor, how complicated life is especially when one doesn't have certainties. You put it so well when you say 'my commitment to our monarchy is less than whole hearted', but I would have to say my commitment to known models of republicanism is less than whole-hearted too, and I am certainly no revolutionary. Would it be a good metaphor to suggest my moorings are unwillingly embedded in royalty's mud (albeit mud leased to the landed gentry) but that I would be no happier if the mud were administered by an egalitarian state?

I'm equally ambivalent about education...love the private sector but hate selection by pocket; about the welfare state...the true mark of a civilised society yet a killer of initiative; about politics...I'm in favour of big fiscal cake-makers but am unsure about how they should slice up their products.

So please accept me as a poor muddled individual who happens to like music a bit.

And talking of music, it is strange that many see music and the arts as a left-wingish sort of activity as evidenced by the Rubbras and Henzes, but MacMillan has quite publicly challenged that assumption.

Am I going off-topic....?

I nominate this for post of the Day for Friday.
Those at the top portray the arts as Left wingish /whatever, because thought scares them.

[decantor]

Would it be a good metaphor to suggest my moorings are unwillingly embedded in royalty's mud (albeit mud leased to the landed gentry) but that I would be no happier if the mud were administered by an egalitarian state?

I'm equally ambivalent about education...love the private sector but hate selection by pocket; about the welfare state...the true mark of a civilised society yet a killer of initiative; about politics...I'm in favour of big fiscal cake-makers but am unsure about how they should slice up their products.

Ardcarp, my gentle tease over republicanism hardly deserved your heart-rending confessional as response! Perhaps you could go along with “If it ain’t broke…..”? Personally, I love the idea that there is someone to whom the likes of Dave and Tony have to nod the head and utter a reverential “Ma’am”.

Of course, shutting down private education would do nothing to enhance the performance of state schools, just as withdrawing welfare would probably increase initiative only in the field of crime. As for the apportioning of the Big Cake, I flounder with you, moored in the mud: where can we find some updated charts?

In another thread, I referred to a “lady organist” and was instantly flamed as a sexist. In my first post in this thread, I referred to a “lady barrister” and escaped rebuke. Just as well: it is how Mary Robinson referred to herself and her erstwhile colleagues while speaking on feminism in the ‘Free Thinking’ debates. Seems to me the whole world is pretty confused.

[teamsaint]

Ardcarp, my gentle tease over republicanism hardly deserved your heart-rending confessional as response! Perhaps you could go along with “If it ain’t broke…..”? Personally, I love the idea that there is someone to whom the likes of Dave and Tony have to nod the head and utter a reverential “Ma’am”.

Of course, shutting down private education would do nothing to enhance the performance of state schools, just as withdrawing welfare would probably increase initiative only in the field of crime. As for the apportioning of the Big Cake, I flounder with you, moored in the mud: where can we find some updated charts?

In another thread, I referred to a “lady organist” and was instantly flamed as a sexist. In my first post in this thread, I referred to a “lady barrister” and escaped rebuke. Just as well: it is how Mary Robinson referred to herself and her erstwhile colleagues while speaking on feminism in the ‘Free Thinking’ debates. Seems to me the whole world is pretty confused.

isn't it just guessing , or hoping, or whatever to say that shutting independent schools wouldn't improve state provision?

My guess is that it would increase the quality of provision in affluent postcode areas, and leave it unchanged elsewhere.

As for the monarch...if hereditary privilege is such a great idea, why do we not encourage it in other areas?
(mind you in some jobs.......)

[ardcarp]

isn't it just guessing , or hoping, or whatever to say that shutting independent schools wouldn't improve state provision?

There may be some effect, but I regret it is at least partly a question of attitudes within the maintained sector. I am not involved in education, but have had dealings with headteachers as a parent and now as a grandparent. Very recently I suggested that a group of state-school kids interested in music/drama (and IMO failed by their teachers) might go to see a musical production put on by a nearby independent school. This went down like a lead balloon. This was not because of logistics, but because the very idea was clearly heretical. It is as if aspiration and expectation are to be feared. There are some examples of maintained schools achieving a great deal in the spheres of music, art, drama and sports....which prove that it is not principally a question of resources but of dedication, inspiration and commitment. Unfortunately such schools are in the minority and, worst of all, none are near me. McGongGong won't like this post!

[teamsaint]

I don't go into many secondary schools, so I am not really well placed to answer you points.
However, If I were a head of a middling comp or similar,(not a great idea!) I think I would be quite wary of areas like music and art, unless I was very sure of my resources.
Some of The private schools that i have visited in the last few years in this neck of the wood have unbelievable facilities....and I was lucky enough to go to a very good public school, so I am not that easily impressed,One of our local prep schools has cricket facilities that are a lot better than county sides had 20 years ago. And some of the secondary schools have jaw dropping facilities.
So, there may be a fear of aspiration in parts of the state sector, but then again, maybe state schools are just trying to compete as best they can, where they can, which they may well think is on "academic" subjects.
Like you, i think, I am against state monopoly, because i have seen all too well how it can fail all sorts of kids, but I have to say, as long as the folks at the top can get out of the state loop, and its in their own interest that the private flourishes while the state flounders, things won't change for the better.