What's your favourite clef?

[Guest]

I'm very fond of the tenor myself. Are there any other clef aficionados out there who have any thoughts on the matter?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm very fond of the tenor myself. Are there any other clef aficionados out there who have any thoughts on the matter?

With the abundance of C clefs, there are 7 in all. With octave signs, its perfectly possible to write all music on the middle line (or any other line of space), simply by changing clefs. Now that really tests your reading ability.

I really don't see the point of the continued use of the tenor clef, as it's so close to the alto, which does have a useful purpose, being exactly midway between the better-known clefs.

Singing tenor in a choir can be confusing when switching from treble to bass when moving between open and short score.

[ardcarp]

I really don't see the point of the continued use of the tenor clef,

Bassoonists and trombonists would disagree! Just as the alto clef puts viola music more in the middle of the stave, so does the tenor clef for them when they are in the upper part of their range. Like so many things in orchestral music, there is an inherited orthodoxy (transposing instruments, horns without key-sigs, etc) and no-ne seems to want to change it. As a conductor, it actually helps when scanning a score to spot the lines belonging to horns, clarinets, etc though I did suffer agonies as a student being required to realise them at sight on the piano. A fellow student, rather more gifted than I in that respect, gave a public recital of The Art of Fugue, on the organ, reading it in open score from 3 different C-clefs plus bass.

[Eudaimonia]

Alto clef fan here! Or "viola clef," as it's more properly known.

Curious, do any of you have any experience with the archaic clefs (subbass clef, french violin clef, etc.)? If so, how long did it take for you to get comfortable with it?

[Mr Pee]

I'm very fond of the tenor myself. Are there any other clef aficionados out there who have any thoughts on the matter?

I'm a bit of a fan of the French Violin Clef, which has become sadly neglected these days. I don't think it ever fully recovered from the scandal involving un-natural acts with a Baritone Clef on Clapham Common, which were so laciviously reported on in that now defunct scandal sheet, the Daily Score.

[Chris Newman]

Having undergone the change from soprano as a kid to a long absence from singing then singing baritone before a teacher converted me to a tenor (ouch!) I preferred treble clef. I still get lost for a while when the tenor clef is plonked in front of me. I like ACEG/EGBDF with a middle and top C easy to find. I can understand viola players getting uptight they always do

[kernelbogey]

... the scandal involving un-natural acts with a Baritone Clef on Clapham Common, which were so laciviously reported on in that now defunct scandal sheet, the Daily Score.

And, I recall, the basis for a Roman a Clef, later published in Paris. :cool2:

[Don Petter]

I'm a bit of a fan of the French Violin Clef, which has become sadly neglected these days. I don't think it ever fully recovered from the scandal involving un-natural acts with a Baritone Clef on Clapham Common, which were so laciviously reported on in that now defunct scandal sheet, the Daily Score.

In these enlightened days, it is not the thing to comment adversely on the proclivities of any levels of the community. (In this case, the clef palate.)

[ilikewillis]

Rock of ages, clef for me.

In actual fact, I don't like clefs at all. If they must be used, I would prefer that they be drawn very small.

[Wolsey]

Bassoonists and trombonists would disagree!

As would cellists.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Bassoonists and trombonists would disagree! Just as the alto clef puts viola music more in the middle of the stave, so does the tenor clef for them when they are in the upper part of their range. Like so many things in orchestral music, there is an inherited orthodoxy (transposing instruments, horns without key-sigs, etc) and no-ne seems to want to change it. As a conductor, it actually helps when scanning a score to spot the lines belonging to horns, clarinets, etc though I did suffer agonies as a student being required to realise them at sight on the piano. A fellow student, rather more gifted than I in that respect, gave a public recital of The Art of Fugue, on the organ, reading it in open score from 3 different C-clefs plus bass.

My point was that the tenor and alto clefs are so close together that it would make sense to substitute the former with the latter.
On the question of horn notation, I agree entirely. There is also the confusion of old horn parts using bass clef written down an octave for the deeper notes. Crazy?

[David Underdown]

Well for trombones there's the added complication that you get (particularly brass band) music written on the treble clef but as for a transposing instrument in Bb (the actual pitch is down a ninth of course), this actually puts the notes on exactly the same lines and spaces as they would be if th emusic was written in tenor clef - though the key signatures are different, as are any accidentals. That is to say, a written D in treble clef, on the second line down sounds a middle C.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Well for trombones there's the added complication that you get (particularly brass band) music written on the treble clef but as for a transposing instrument in Bb (the actual pitch is down a ninth of course), this actually puts the notes on exactly the same lines and spaces as they would be if th emusic was written in tenor clef - though the key signatures are different, as are any accidentals. That is to say, a written D in treble clef, on the second line down sounds a middle C.

That's a fair point; so I withdraw my proposal to scrap the tenor clef without reservation. There's a similar situation with E flat instruments reading the treble and bass clef versions on the same lines/spaces.

[David Underdown]

Yes, I remember being given a baritone sax part to play on one occasion as the trombone bass clef part had gone awol (in the sort of flexible "band" arrangements you often get for school ensembles).

You do get trombone parts notated in alto clef as well, a hang over from the days when the trombone section consisted of alto, tenor and bass trombones. For some reason Shostakovitch stuck with scoring his parts this way, which rather confused me when given the 1st trombone part for (I think) the Second Jazz Suite. Playing it through at home (fortunately) I noted the C-clef at the beginning, and set off assuming it was tenor clef, until wondering why he had stuck an accidental in front of a note without apparent rhyme or reason. I had to resort to writing the slide positions in underneath as it was the first time I'd actually had to play off alto clef, rahter than jsut seeing it in scores for set works.

[Nick Armstrong]

Bassoonists and trombonists would disagree!

As a trombonist, I happen to agree totally!! I was brought up reading bass clef in a military / concert band - all the parts seem to be bass clef, even for non-bass trombone players. Orchestral parts in the tenor clef confuse me utterly - in fact whenever I've played in orchestras since, I've laboriously transcribed my part and played off my manuscript bass clef part.

Anyone (bbm??) know why concert band parts favour bass clef but orchestral favour bass clef??

WHOOPS: I MEANT TO SAY "Anyone (bbm??) know why concert band parts favour bass clef but orchestral favour tenor clef?? "