Sumptuous in G from Hereford

[Finzi4ever]

Arnold in A was the briefest of all settings we ever sung, mostly homophonic (please note 'n' not 'b'!) and was taken out of some ancient RSCM docesan service book (remember those terrible Sat afternoon occasions?).

I want to stand up for Charles Wood canticles: glorious sequences in the double choir Coll.Reg. and as a boy, the D was in my top 5 of all services: "He hath put down the mighty from their seat" (d,a,a,d,a,d,d,a,a,d).

Stainer in Bb flat anyone?

No suggestions to my BBC CE homepage/LA pic quiz then?
sorry, can't copy it here, but link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006tp7r

[Simon]

Ah yes, Wood Coll Reg - I now remember that as one we liked a lot.

No memory as yet for me of doing a Stainer evening service.

Thanks for link: not much to go on and I for one haven't a clue. If we all say where we know it's not, maybe by a process of elimination we'll get to where it has to be? Unless it's somewhere rather obscure, of course.

[mopsus]

I used to sing in the church choir of St. Ann's Manchester, and it was very frustrating to me that in the main church choir in the city outside the Cathedral we only sang evening canticles 10 times a year, and among them was Arnold in A! Not to mention Nicholson in D flat, another setting I recall with a shudder. Such a pity when there were so many better settings available to us. The entire output of Eric Thiman (another St. Ann's favourite) could also vanish without my minding, too. Stainer in B flat is quite fun once in a while, and I recall a corny setting by Walmisley for double choir which I think may have been in the same key.

[Bullock in D]

Both Harris in A and a Mags and Nuncs were regularly performed at a cathedral near me. They were what the then incumbent described as 'wash-day music', ie Monday evensong material.
And something IIRC called Ley in c?

[Simon]

We definitely did something by Ley, but not sure if it was a service or some anthem. Bb rings a bell, so maybe it was a service. I'll have a scout around.

A quick look at various CDs available a few minutes ago has brought yet more long-forgotten services to mind. What an interesting trawl it was. And what a pointer to how memories, once so vivid, fade as one reaches middle-age... Aaaaagh.

I suppose it's hardly surprising that one does come across so many: at least 5 evening services a week, and we didn't get Christmas and Easter off until after the event, so to speak, just as nowadays - so that meant 40 weeks a year or thereabouts of sung services. Say we only repeated each one once a year, which was probably about right, that's a repertoire of 5 x 20 evening services needed. 100 in all. And how many of these could one realistically recall after 25+ years? Hmmm.

As regards the Harris in A, there doesn't seem anything on youtube. But I found a PDF of this, by a Cuthbert Harris.

http://www.cpdl.org/wiki/images/7/70/Harris-Mag-E_FL.pdf

Anybody know it? I've a feeling I've heard it.. Seems singable enough, but some unexpected modulations, that's for sure. And it starts in G and quickly gets to F minor - which IMO for an Eb work is fairly cool.

bws S-S!

[Finzi4ever]

Stainer in B flat is quite fun once in a while, and I recall a corny setting by Walmisley for double choir which I think may have been in the same key.

You're quite right about the Bb Walmisley and there's a D major one too - anything is pref to the over-done D minor.

[Simon]

we only sang evening canticles 10 times a year, and among them was Arnold in A! Not to mention Nicholson in D flat, another setting I recall with a shudder. Such a pity when there were so many better settings available to us. The entire output of Eric Thiman (another St. Ann's favourite) could also vanish without my minding, too.

I think that Nicholson was mentioned here some long time ago, mopsus - maybe even on the old boards - in similar terms..! Not one I know - and it seems I should be grateful for that.

I agree about Thiman, though that's based on some piano stuff. Did you do no Stanford?

[ahinton]

Forgive me (if at all possible), but I cannot help but notice that a substantial proportion of this thread reads almost as though its in some kind of coded language in which many of the words are recognisably English but in which much of the sense wilfully evades all who happen to be outside the particular ecclesiaticlub of which one can only presume most contributors to be members! I have no desire to listen to anyone who Howells in F as I'm sure that I'd be Smart in G from the experience were I to have it - and I believe that Thiman in E is a vitamin with a superfluous letter - but then, as is painfully obvious, I'm not a paid-up member of said club, so what do I know? - except that on the rare occasions on which I visit Hereford Cathedral it strikes me that the standard of music making there is on some kind of permanent increase.

[chrisjstanley]

And bang on cue the St Thomas Choir of men and boys are back with webcasts of Sumsion in A on 11th September and Wood in E flat on 12th September and even with Ireland in F on the 9th September.

Stop slagging Arnold in A............ always useful to have a rapid Mag & Nunc when its 15th evening.

Chris S

[Simon]

Forgive me (if at all possible), but I cannot help but notice that a substantial proportion of this thread reads almost as though its in some kind of coded language in which many of the words are recognisably English but in which much of the sense wilfully evades all who happen to be outside the particular ecclesiaticlub of which one can only presume most contributors to be members! I have no desire to listen to anyone who Howells in F as I'm sure that I'd be Smart in G from the experience were I to have it - and I believe that Thiman in E is a vitamin with a superfluous letter - but then, as is painfully obvious, I'm not a paid-up member of said club, so what do I know? - except that on the rare occasions on which I visit Hereford Cathedral it strikes me that the standard of music making there is on some kind of permanent increase.

Very droll, Alistair! And a pleasant and (IMO) justified compliment to Hereford, to boot.

Though I suspect your avowed ignorance of church music is not quite as you state...


Thanks for reminder about NY, Chris. Hope you keeping well.

[mopsus]

We certainly did do Stanford at St. Ann's. But when you only did canticle settings once a month (and not in August or December) you didn't want a washday one. I could never understand why in such a large English city no parish church could come up with a more interesting repertoire.

[Gabriel Jackson]

Forgive me (if at all possible), but I cannot help but notice that a substantial proportion of this thread reads almost as though its in some kind of coded language in which many of the words are recognisably English but in which much of the sense wilfully evades all who happen to be outside the particular ecclesiaticlub of which one can only presume most contributors to be members!

And that is the crux of the problem! The best liturgical music has always been written by the best composers of the day, and latterly that has meant professional composers who have careers in the concert hall and who happen to write church as well - figures like Stanford, Howells, Walton, Tippett, Britten and, more recently, Jonathan Harvey, Judith Weir, James MacMillan etc. Why anyone bothers with Sumsion(s) in G or Brewer in D is quite beyond me.

[Simon]

Why anyone bothers with Sumsion(s) in G or Brewer in D is quite beyond me.

I'm sure it is. But you'll probably understand at some point in the future.

[Gabriel Jackson]

I'm sure it is. But you'll probably understand at some point in the future.

I doubt it! But do enlighten me as to why anyone should (you've already told us how unmemorable the Sumsion settings are..)

[Simon]

Oh, I'm sure you'll get there in your own good time.

You could ask around the various foundations, though, which might help you on your way.