Choral Vespers from St Patrick's Roman Catholic Cathedral, Armagh Aug 29th 2012

[french frank]

What has happened to the post that answered mine? It's gone completely, and I thought we couldn't do that.

Anyone can delete their own posts (though there may be a time limit on it). There hasn't been any moderation

[Pegasus]

I wasn't objecting to an untrained voice, Pegasus, but to the fact that he didn't know the tune, or couldn't sing the notes in the right order.

I was glad when they switched off his microphone after bumbling along in the choral passages!

[Pegasus]

... such undiluted praise ...

I wasn't there, though I have played there (and appreciate the challenges of the West End organ, which has no registration aids as I remember!) A tricky building, for certain.

Blend may have been aided by the acoustic. But, not intonation, nor the commitment to the sustained, legato line. I was genuinely impressed! I shall re-listen ...

And I can claim no particular allegiance with the performers, though singing for David Hill ranks amongst my most memorable of musical experiences.

I promise to return to a more curmudgeonly state as soon as possible.

[ardcarp]

Having just got back from a very un-cultural holiday and LA-ed this Vespers without first looking at The Forum, I thought it was a terrific broadcast. It was recorded somewhat distantly in a big acoustic, but isn't that what you'd get as a live listener? (Somehow in the recent Buckfast Abbey broadcast, the engineers factored out some of that Catholic ambience.) What impressed me most was the sheer musicality of the direction. David Hill is a wonderful all-round musician, and I am glad that he is able, now and then, to return to a liturgical environment Whilst I am pleased for him that he treads a wider musical stage these days (including the Beeb Singers!) it is a pity that one of the most talented church musicians is no longer 'in post'.

Having now read The Forum comments, I have to agree with Pegasus that this was rather good. I cannot quite understand the criticism that the fare was a pot pourri. Isn't CE usually thus? And this was Choral Vespers, so surely an ecumenical nod to our Catholic brethren was in order (even if not sufficiently thoroughbred for Alex...welcome from me too! Arguably all antiphons were manufactured by someone, sometime. They don't just exist in the universe ready tailored for the Sarum Rite.) Interestingly Choral Vespers broadcasts from Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral give more than a nod to the Anglican tradition.

I found nothing offensive about the homily but was amused at the pronunciation of Charles as 'Charlus'. I dislike any sort of preaching during a broadcast CE, but at least this was homily-length, not sermon-length. OK, I understand that some have reservations about who presented it, but I've (a) forgotten the political baggage and (b) am prepared to forgive whatever it was.

Yes the Howells was absolutely terrific. Well sung and beautifully crafted. Loved the Messaien too.

Ramble over. I need another holiday.

[Miles Coverdale]

OK, I understand that some have reservations about who presented it, but I've (a) forgotten the political baggage and (b) am prepared to forgive whatever it was.

Very noble of you, I'm sure. However, unless you're one of the many people whose lives have been blighted by the actions of the paedophile priests shielded by the Catholic church (I'm assuming you're not) – a process in which Sean Brady has undoubtedly been complicit – I'm not sure that forgiveness is yours to hand out.

[ardcarp]

Oops. Sorry. I thought maybe we were going back to 'the troubles'.

[bach736]

Just l-a'd this as well on return from abroad.
A splendid service to come home to.
Quite agree with Giles about the intonation and legato - best Nata lux I've heard in ages too.
I thought how well the Office hymn set the scene - liked the extended organ intro and Ave Virgo Virginum is such a wonderful tune that, when sung so heartily, put me in mind of the uplifting congregational singing you hear in the great cathedral churches of Germany and the Netherlands.

[ardcarp]

....put me in mind of the uplifting congregational singing you hear in the great cathedral churches of Germany and the Netherlands.

Interested to hear about that, bach. Presumably you refer to the Lutheran Church? My continental experience is mainly French. Nuff said. Very hearty cong singing used to be found in UK public school chapels. Don't know if it still is, but I used to find it quite moving.

[jean]

Presumably you refer to the Lutheran Church?

Not necessarily. German Catholic congregations sing much more lustily than their counterparts here.

I remember being some way into a service in the cathedral in Münster before I realised it was Catholic.

.

[bach736]

Presumably you refer to the Lutheran Church?

Yes, mainly Lutheran - but Jean is absolutely right about the Catholic congregations in Germany.
This is the sort of thing I had in mind - a Dutch metrical version of Psalm 42.
Not the best example, perhaps, but I chose it as Charles Wood uses the same tune by Bourgeois for his anthem O thou sweetest source of gladness. It really takes off in verse 5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL0sOgEThPs&list=PL01A13D163B5FEBEF

[ardcarp]

That was good, bach. What a Dutch-sounding organ! The sort of English public school hymns I had in mind were designed for unison singing and inclined towards the strirring, patriotic if slightly cowpat such as Thee will I love (Crossings) by Armstrong Gibbs, Come my way by Alexander Brent-Smith (Come my way) or, best of all, Christ Who Knows All His Sheep (Cambridge) by Charles Wood. The latter is a lovely tune, and I can't think why it isn't more widely used these days. Happily the writing of such tunes continues from the pen of people such as Maurice Beven (There's a wideness)
or Ken Naylor (How shall I sing).

[bach736]

Christ Who Knows All His Sheep (Cambridge) by Charles Wood or Ken Naylor (How shall I sing).

Cambridge is indeed a lovely tune and sadly omitted from most hymn books. You'd have thought at least Holbrook and Poston's 'Cambridge Hymnal' would have included it. I've only ever come across it in the URC book, 'Rejoice and Sing' (470). Nice organ intro for it there as well.
A copy of Coe Fen is usually lying around the battered old console in The Ley's School chapel, where it's become a sort of second national anthem. Arguably the best new tune of the 20th century.

Here's an even better Dutch sounding organ accompanying Psalm 68.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OmnVv5sFpg&feature=related

[ardcarp]

Cambridge is indeed a lovely tune and sadly omitted from most hymn books. You'd have thought at least Holbrook and Poston's 'Cambridge Hymnal' would have included it. I've only ever come across it in the URC book, 'Rejoice and Sing' (470).

...it's in Hymns for Church and School along with many other juicy tunes. I don't know if HCS is still in print, or if later editions include such delights as Coe Fen. My copy has the rubric:

Being the Fourth Edition of
The Public School Hymn Book
Edited by a Committee
appointed by
The Headmasters' Conference

Obviously the original name became non-PC.

Poston's Cambridge Hymnal is a lovely book, but somewhat misleadingly titled as it contains a lot of stuff that is hardly suitable for congregational singing (eg Purcell's Evening Hymn). I used to use her version of Soldiers of Christ Arise which went up a semitone each verse...OK a simple idea, but when you finally got to 'And stand entire at last' you felt you had really arrived...albeit via G flat major.

[Wolsey]

A copy of Coe Fen is usually lying around the battered old console in The Ley's School chapel, where it's become a sort of second national anthem. Arguably the best new tune of the 20th century.

That's only to be expected; Naylor was Director of Music there.

[Keraulophone]

...it's in Hymns for Church and School along with many other juicy tunes. I don't know if HCS is still in print, or if later editions include such delights as Coe Fen.

I don't think there were any further editions beyond HCS (1964), other than melody- and words-only editions pub. as The Gresham Hymnbook. My copy is a 1982 reprint. One if its best features is a 35 page 'Historical Survey' of 'Hymns and their Tunes' by Erik Routley; excellent reading during (invariably uninspiring - they should have been the opposite!) public school sermons.

BTW, Charles Wood's Cambridge is No.347 in Hymns A&M New Standard (1983).