CE Hereford Cathedral 25th July 2012

[Gabriel Jackson]

Edinburgh, far flung? !!!! It's only the capital, legal & financial centre, & the seat of government.

Here we go again...in the context of the discussion, Edinburgh IS far-flung, being the most Northerly cathedral that maintains daily sung services and the only one in Scotland.

[Flosshilde]

Yes, indeed, 'here we go again'. Even in that context Edinburgh isn't 'far-flung' if you live, for example, in Glasgow. It's only 'far-flung' if your universe centres on the SE of England.

[mangerton]

Yes, indeed, 'here we go again'. Even in that context Edinburgh isn't 'far-flung' if you live, for example, in Glasgow. It's only 'far-flung' if your universe centres on the SE of England.

Thanks, flossie. You got in just before me as I was checking Draco's comment # 34 on the Ripon thread - highly relevant in this context.

Like you, I was going to say that Edinburgh is not in the least "far-flung" from Glasgow or even Dundee. I do wish certain people on these boards would take a much less anglo-centric approach. The world doesn't stop at the Watford gap.

[Gabriel Jackson]

Yes, indeed, 'here we go again'. Even in that context Edinburgh isn't 'far-flung' if you live, for example, in Glasgow. It's only 'far-flung' if your universe centres on the SE of England.

Far more people live in the South East of England than live in Glasgow, or Dundee! I take it you don't object to Truro being described as far-flung? It isn't if you live in Falmouth. But it is if you live in Edinburgh, Glasgow or Dundee.

[Gabriel Jackson]

I do wish certain people on these boards would take a much less anglo-centric approach. The world doesn't stop at the Watford gap.

Cathedral music of the kind discussed is an anglo-centric phenomenon!

[ardcarp]

Robert Carver?

I was checking Draco's comment # 34 on the Ripon thread - highly relevant in this context.

I don't think either Draco or I were suggesting day-chorister recruitment at Ripon would be difficult on the grounds of its being 'far-flung'. Rather that its surrounding population density is less than say St Albans or Guildford. Living in the SW, I know all about being on something of a cultural limb, and I have always thought that many things are too Home Counties centred. (Even the expression 'Home Counties' speaks for itself.) I dare say the denizens of Orkney or the Western Isles feel the same about Edinburgh.

[Gabriel Jackson]

I'm not sure what Robert Carver has to do with a conversation about cathedral choirs, great composer that he was...!

I didn't read either of your comments as suggesting that either. Truro and Edinburgh ARE on the periphery of the cathedral choir world, both geographically and, arguably, in terms of the resources at their disposal (certainly compared to many older, better-endowed and wealthier foundations) which is why the current standards of their very fine choirs are such a cause for celebration.

[mangerton]

I'm not sure what Robert Carver has to do with a conversation about cathedral choirs, great composer that he was...!

Did he not write for a cathedral (or abbey) choir? Seems quite relevant to me, even if Scone and Stirling are almost as far-flung as Dundee.

[Flosshilde]

Far more people live in the South East of England than live in Glasgow, or Dundee! I take it you don't object to Truro being described as far-flung? It isn't if you live in Falmouth. But it is if you live in Edinburgh, Glasgow or Dundee.

Well, I would object to Truro being called far flung if I lived near it, but it is far-flung from Glasgow, just as London is. As for more people living in the SE of England than in Glasgow or Dundee, true - but ther are far more people living outside the SE of England than live within it. Perhaps you should just accept that saying 'cathedrals in Truro or Edinburgh' is better than making crass comments about their non-existent geographical remoteness?

[Flosshilde]

I dare say the denizens of Orkney or the Western Isles feel the same about Edinburgh.

Indeed they do, often complaining about how the Central Belt (the Glasgow/Edinburgh/Stirling area) dominates news etc. (But I don't think they'd like being called 'denizens')

[ardcarp]

Did he not write for a cathedral (or abbey) choir? Seems quite relevant to me, even if Scone and Stirling are almost as far-flung as Dundee.

Indeed, and whilst GJ would have been right to talk about music in the Anglican church as 'anglo-centric' about 75 years ago, Anglican choirs have embraced music from many sorces of late. The anthem from Hereford speaks for itself (if the composer's name is anything to go by) and I sang Carver as a member of a cathedral choir in the 70s. Psalms and Canticles remain pretty 'anglo' (though we get some Renaissance and Baroque examples of Mags and Nuncs from Europe from time to time) but anthems can be almost anything...and jolly good, say I.

[french frank]

(But I don't think they'd like being called 'denizens')

Are you suggesting they wouldn't know what it meant?

[Gabriel Jackson]

Well, I would object to Truro being called far flung if I lived near it, but it is far-flung from Glasgow, just as London is. As for more people living in the SE of England than in Glasgow or Dundee, true - but ther are far more people living outside the SE of England than live within it. Perhaps you should just accept that saying 'cathedrals in Truro or Edinburgh' is better than making crass comments about their non-existent geographical remoteness?

I see, so it is alright to describe a place as far-flung if you live nowhere near it, but not if you do.

[Gabriel Jackson]

Indeed, and whilst GJ would have been right to talk about music in the Anglican church as 'anglo-centric' about 75 years ago, Anglican choirs have embraced music from many sorces of late. The anthem from Hereford speaks for itself (if the composer's name is anything to go by) and I sang Carver as a member of a cathedral choir in the 70s. Psalms and Canticles remain pretty 'anglo' (though we get some Renaissance and Baroque examples of Mags and Nuncs from Europe from time to time) but anthems can be almost anything...and jolly good, say I.

I was talking about the practice of daily sung services in cathedrals (and college chapels) being Anglo-centric, which it is - the vast majority of such establishments are in England!

[mangerton]

Are you suggesting they wouldn't know what it meant?

Oh, we're not daft, us far flung people. Of course we know what it means.

Citizens - people who live in cities.

Denizens - people who live in dens. There's a Dens Road in Dundee, home to a football team, so that proves it.