CE Hereford Cathedral 25th July 2012

[Wolsey]

[snip]I can't imagine that the Three Choirs families are at all happy about this extra imposition. I wonder how much it affects recruitment.

Have you not thought that the parents might already have considered this when choosing to send their sons to one of the Three Choirs cathedrals in the first place? Some may even consider being part of the oldest music festival in the world anything other than an "extra imposition".

[Wolsey]

Would I be correct in thinking that when the 3CF started, cathedral choirs did not have such long holidays as now?

The Festival started in the early 1700s, so what cathedral choirs did then in terms of holidays is anybody's guess...

[Radegund]

This discussion of the dates of the Three Choirs is interesting. Historically, they have been moving forward and this year have been the earliest they will ever get. Until 1967 the festival was held in September (3–8 September that year). Imagine what it must have been like putting a week-long festival with chorus, symphony orchestra and three cathedral choirs together just after the summer holidays, with the uncertainty, for instance, of who would be making up the top line of the cathedral choirs.

From 1968 until the early festivals of this century it was moved forward to the third or fourth week of August. The chorus rehearsed (in three local contingents in each city, with a certain number of 'massed' rehearsals throughout the term) twice a week from April until the end of the summer term and then had six weeks or so off, returning for maybe one rehearsal the Monday before the festival started, then two massed rehearsals on the Thursday and Friday directly before. Forum members might like to imagine what it was like for the chorus to recall all the details of rehearsal for five or six evening programmes in two two-hour sessions after all that break.

In 2004 the festival dates moved forward by about two weeks, where they remained until last year, cutting a third off this rehearsal gap.

In 2005 when the dates of the London Olympics were announced, thought was given straight away as to whether the dates of the 2012 festival should be moved into July so as to be clear of the Games. Thus this year's festival was a whole month earlier than it was twenty years ago.

The festival probably won't take place this early again, but it will stay in July. There is no longer any gap in the rehearsals.

One poster's comments relating to the idea of holding the festival in term-time suggest that the author has never been to the Three Choirs. At Hereford and Worcester a concert stage capable of holding a full symphony orchestra and chorus of 180 singers is built at the west end of the cathedral and the whole cathedral is turned round for the festival (except for Evensong, meaning that many of the specially brought-in seats are turned twice a day). At Gloucester a similar stage is built in front of the organ screen. Basically the cathedral in each case has to be transformed into a concert hall, and the idea of holding the festival during term-time would be a logistical impossibility, before you even think about how choristers would deliver their workload whilst still in theory being at school. The cathedral school buildings of each city play a vital part in the festival, providing changing space, box office accommodation and so on, and this is another reason why a festival held in term time is a complete non-starter.

As an aside, members might be interested to know how things were done in 1924. I have seen a copy of the festival chorus rehearsal schedule for 28 August that year (for a festival beginning on 7 September):

2.30–5 pm
National Anthem arr Elgar
O Lord look down from heaven Battishill
Mass in B minor Bach
The Dream of Gerontius Elgar
The Kingdom Elgar
Go song of mine Elgar
The Tower Battishill
Requiem Brahms

then a half hour break for tea ...

5.30 pm
Hymn of Jesus Holst
Mass in B minor Bach
Parsifal Wagner [just the Finale from Act I]
Eilijah Mendelssohn
Messiah Handel

This session must have finished by 7.15 or so as there were trains to Gloucester (those were the days) and Worcester at 7.42 pm.

If you want to know what it sounded like, there are live recordings made at the 1927 Hereford festival with Elgar conducting, which are available on CD.

[french frank]

Is that the knock-out blow? Or coup de grâce? We shall see ...

[Radegund]

It might also be worth adding that the implication that the choristers are in some way abused by being forced to take part in the TCF during their holidays is some distance from the reality. If you asked most of them, they would, I think, tell you that it was a highlight of their year. They are looked after with incredible care and dedication by a professional team of chaperones (assisted by several ex-choristers who seem quite keen to come back and help out), and in between their musical commitments each day they have a full programme of off-duty activities arranged for them.

[paul duggan2]

Is that the knock-out blow? Or coup de grâce? We shall see ...

I fear not..

[french frank]

It might also be worth adding that the implication that the choristers are in some way abused by being forced to take part in the TCF during their holidays is some distance from the reality. If you asked most of them, they would, I think, tell you that it was a highlight of their year. They are looked after with incredible care and dedication by a professional team of chaperones (assisted by several ex-choristers who seem quite keen to come back and help out), and in between their musical commitments each day they have a full programme of off-duty activities arranged for them.

I had wondered whether it was only in retrospect that these youngsters realise how incredibly lucky and privileged they are to have the training and experiences that go with being a chorister.

[Edit: Removed the last sentence as it could have been read as meaning the opposite of what I intended to say. I'm sure choristers benefit and are appreciative in full measure.]

[ahinton]

This discussion of the dates of the Three Choirs is interesting. Historically, they have been moving forward and this year have been the earliest they will ever get.

Eh? In 2009, the last time it was held in Hereford, it took place in June, did it not?

As an aside, members might be interested to know how things were done in 1924. I have seen a copy of the festival chorus rehearsal schedule for 28 August that year (for a festival beginning on 7 September):

2.30–5 pm
National Anthem arr Elgar
O Lord look down from heaven Battishill
Mass in B minor Bach
The Dream of Gerontius Elgar
The Kingdom Elgar
Go song of mine Elgar
The Tower Battishill
Requiem Brahms

then a half hour break for tea ...

5.30 pm
Hymn of Jesus Holst
Mass in B minor Bach
Parsifal Wagner [just the Finale from Act I]
Eilijah Mendelssohn
Messiah Handel

This session must have finished by 7.15 or so as there were trains to Gloucester (those were the days) and Worcester at 7.42 pm.

All or some of these must surely have been extracts; you'd never have squeezed all that lot into two and a half and one and three quarter hours respectively! But yes - trains from Hereford to anywhere at all these days are something of a waste of time, unless you have all day!

[Miles Coverdale]

Eh? In 2009, the last time it was held in Hereford, it took place in June, did it not?

No, it did not. It was the second week in August.

[Roger Judd]

No, those were the pieces performed during the Festival in 1924 in their entirety. The rehearsal must only have scratched the surface, leaving one to wonder what the standard was like. It is only relatively recently (recently, as in a Festival whose 285th meeting has just closed!) that the music has had adequate rehearsal, by modern standards.

Radegund is absolutely right in all that he says about the choristers - to watch them at work this week is to know that they are loving it; sitting in with the Philharmonia orchestra observing the players with rapt attention; being inside the unfolding of the St John Passion in an absolutely first-class performance that had everyone gripped - I could go on.

[To have the choristers wind down their busy years at the cathedrals and schools and then to wind themselves up again to take part in the Three Choirs Festival is not reasonable. It must affect performance standards whatever Roger says. I really am surprised that the DoMs don't object to it. It is certainly asking far too much of the boys if not so much of the men.]

I'm afraid this is simply tosh ...
RJ

[ahinton]

No, it did not. It was the second week in August.

Then my memory serves me incorrectly and I apologise!

[ahinton]

No, those were the pieces performed during the Festival in 1924 in their entirety. The rehearsal must only have scratched the surface, leaving one to wonder what the standard was like. It is only relatively recently (recently, as in a Festival whose 285th meeting has just closed!) that the music has had adequate rehearsal, by modern standards.

Then I shudder to imagine what the results must have been like!

Radegund is absolutely right in all that he says about the choristers - to watch them at work this week is to know that they are loving it; sitting in with the Philharmonia orchestra observing the players with rapt attention; being inside the unfolding of the St John Passion in an absolutely first-class performance that had everyone gripped - I could go on.

Hereford Cathedral is certainly developing quite a reputation - and with good reason - for its music-making and the ongoing achievements of Mr Bowen do him, his choristers and the Cathedral much credit.

[Wolsey]

Is that the knock-out blow? Or coup de grâce? We shall see ...

I think the tomato can (q.v.) has now received the Sunday punch (q.v.).

[Magnificat]

[To have the choristers wind down their busy years at the cathedrals and schools and then to wind themselves up again to take part in the Three Choirs Festival is not reasonable. It must affect performance standards whatever Roger says. I really am surprised that the DoMs don't object to it. It is certainly asking far too much of the boys if not so much of the men.]
I'm afraid this is simply tosh ...
RJ

Roger,

I'm sorry Roger but to expect the boys to come back barely into their holidays and sing to the extent that you say they have to in the Three Choirs Festival is really quite outrageous. They may love it but they are being asked to do far far too much and it shows when we hear the below par CE broadcasts that we have done in recent years.

To answer other questions above. I have been to a Festival, in Gloucester some years ago admittedly; and why should fitting up a cathedral to stage concerts or other big events in term time stop it from carrying on with its normal services? It happens elsewhere. I have seen St Albans set up exactly as described above for the IOF, the huge Millenium events ( when they had a river running down the length of the Nave) ,for example, and services and cathedral life generally carried on as usual; and when they filmed 'Johnny English' with Rowan Atkinson at the Abbey and took over the cathedral for a couple of weeks a few years ago they held weekday evensong in a tent in the Abbey Orchard - it brought to mind the words of psalm 84!!

VCC

[paul duggan2]

Roger,

I'm sorry Roger but to expect the boys to come back barely into their holidays and sing to the extent that you say they have to in the Three Choirs Festival is really quite outrageous. They may love it but they are being asked to do far far too much and it shows when we hear the below par CE broadcasts that we have done in recent years.

To answer other questions above. I have been to a Festival, in Gloucester some years ago admittedly; and why should fitting up a cathedral to stage concerts or other big events in term time stop it from carrying on with its normal services? It happens elsewhere. I have seen St Albans set up exactly as described above for the IOF, the huge Millenium events ( when they had a river running down the length of the Nave) ,for example, and services and cathedral life generally carried on as usual; and when they filmed 'Johnny English' with Rowan Atkinson at the Abbey and took over the cathedral for a couple of weeks a few years ago they held weekday evensong in a tent in the Abbey Orchard - it brought to mind the words of psalm 84!!

VCC

Sheer comedy genius - keep it coming! V entertaining..