CE York Minster June 13th 2012

[nytseiyork]

One might also add that people very rarely identify correctly which set of choristers is on. And indeed if they do, they note that they sound all but identical. I think the Minster's choice to not release this information is very informed and gives these excellent choristers - both boys and girls - the chance to shine.

[Miles Coverdale]

I might disagree with the above assessments about the canticles - Byrd's Great Service isn't meant to a be dignified chamber ensemble piece, it's meant to be an explosion of sound breaking the bounds of Tudor precedent, and York's sound definitely did justice to this. The building carried the acoustic fantastically, but the choir's 'big' sound is EXACTLY what's required for this piece, and very few choirs are allowed off their leash enough to perform it authentically this way any more.

How do you know what Byrd Great is 'meant' to be? I think one should be very careful about asserting what an 'authentic' performance should or should not sound like. Byrd Great is unprecedented in its length and, to a lesser extent, the complexity of its scoring (though an awful lot of it is the standard five parts). In other respects, though, it doesn't break that many bounds.

[DracoM]

The Minster used to say which set of trebles did each service, but attendance at the girls' services was less than the boys because people assumed they'd be getting a different and inferior sound. As you have all observed this is not the case and so, to remove any inherent bias, the Minster doesn't release which set of choristers will be on, including for broadcasts and recordings, in order to give the girls at least a fighting chance of being considered on the same plane.

Erm..........on a RADIO service? Most tune in to listen irrespective of the front line, BUT similarly most would like to know which set of choristers is singing.

Frankly I do not think that is an unreasonable request.

[Finzi4ever]

Loved what I heard of it (beginning and end thus far, so cannot comment on Byrd). Great psalmody as already stated and took much from first encounter with the Sawer anthem: was at school with him and in same ensembles - fine violinist as I recall - before he went up to York.
Can I put in a word for the remarkable piece that is the Bruhns voluntary: it's a testament to both piece and player that it worked so effectively on the uber-Romantic, gentle/genteel Hill/Walker/Harrison!

[ardcarp]

I adore consort music with viols, whether it be secular or sacred. I love the way vocal and instrumental lines are similar and the way that voices pop in and out of the texture. Byrd's Great Service (and surely 'Great' refers only to its length and doesn't imply grandiose-ness) belongs to this genre, IMO. And 'IMO' is all you can say. For me it was a bit overblown and, as someone else said, on the upper limit of speed. That aside, I would like to endorse what others have said about the great job Robert Sharpe is doing at York.

[Miles Coverdale]

The principal sources for the Great Service are at Durham Cathedral, Pembroke College, Cambridge and Peterhouse, Cambridge. The Peterhouse MSS very probably derive from Durham. There is only one partbook at York which contains it, and that only has the Venite and Te Deum.

[Simon Biazeck]

I was reminded of what an eminent scholar said recently about Byrd’s Great Service, that it was almost certainly a tribute to old friends at Elizabeth’s prestigious Chapel Royal, and quite possibly an apologia for his implication in the Throckmorton plot – “Sorry for all the trouble!” I would also add, that as a virtuoso display of his masterful counterpoint, it was surely a tribute to their skill. And judging by what, on present evidence, appears to be a limited circulation outside the Chapel Royal, other foundations may have found it beyond them. (Even though it continues a fine tradition of similar offerings from Farrant, Mundy and Parsons.) No problem for York Minster Choir under Robert Sharpe! How fortunate we are to hear such an assured and beautiful rendition of it.

[Finzi4ever]

Can anyone tell me who wrote the tune/descant to Radcliffe Sq? I take it that it's an Oxford ref. and so prob not by R. Sh. (a Corpus Cantab. man).

[RAC]

Can anyone tell me who wrote the tune/descant to Radcliffe Sq? I take it that it's an Oxford ref. and so prob not by R. Sh. (a Corpus Cantab. man).

The Hymn "Take up the song, and sing the praise of God" is 253 in Sing Praise (published by Hymns Ancient & Modern Ltd and the Royal School of Church Music in September 2010), the tune Radcliffe Square, and the descant, are by Geoffrey Webber who is Precentor of Gonville and Caius College, Cambridge, but previously studied and lectured in Oxford.

I've found hymns from this book have been sung in several Choral Evensongs.

RAC

[french frank]

The broadcast from York Minster is available in the iPlayer until 5:02PM Sunday, 24 Jun 2012 for any further discussion about the order of service and performance.

The related discussion is being resited: please don't continue it here.

[bach736]

The related discussion is being resited: please don't continue it here.

Sorry - did I miss something?
Where's it all gone?
I think we should be told.

[french frank]

The discussion last night turned to comments about a particular individual who was readily identifiable, there was a dispute as to the facts and I have deleted those posts because they seemed to me to be potentially libellous. It is not advisable on a public forum to suggest that a professional has been sacked because they were felt by their employers to be failing in their duties in some respect unless you are able to provide published evidence that this was true.

The thread which was in any case a diversion from the current one has been placed in the Diversions Forum.

I would have thought that it was possible to have an informative and informed discussion between those who have an interest and concern in the continuing tradition of training boy choristers and those who are professionally involved in training them. But this thread wasn't it.

[bach736]

Thanks ff.
Seems very reasonable.
Hope you didn't mind my asking.

[french frank]

Not at all , but to repeat:

The broadcast from York Minster is available in the iPlayer until 5:02PM Sunday, 24 Jun 2012 for any further discussion about the order of service and performance.