Why Do So Many Choirs Just Sing Loudly Nowadays?

[Guest]

This week's Choral Evensong from York Minster, was another illustration of a good choir, largely singing with only one colour and also an apparent lack of good choral discipline. Despite two excellent recent broadcasts of the same service - from John's Cambridge & St David's Cathedral - both of which displayed a fabulous range of colour, control and detail, we've had yet another broadcast of rowdy and ill-discipllined singing today. Is this a modern phenomenon though? Go back to the days of George Guest and Sir David Willcocks at Cambridge, Stanley Vann at Peterborough and other iconic Choral Conductors elsewhere, did they reallly let their singers sing without attention to blend, careful annuntiation of diction, intonation and other choral niceities? I can't imagine so and certainly the recordings don't suggest that. So why are we SO obsessed by volume and 'noise' in our modern choral outfits? Healthy, supported singing doesn't have to be at the expense of quality artistry and musicianship, surely?! Or perhaps it's just me.......

[ardcarp]

I think you have a very good point there. If we're talking about church music, there has undeniably been a trend for men to be given licence to sing full-voice, and the treble line has had to develop a more robust style to keep up. That is a gross simplification, of course, but in my lay clerk days one was seldom allowed to 'let rip' and blend was always the first consideration. I wouldn't agree with you that York lacked 'choral discipline'. Robert Sharpe has done a great job; but you will see from my posts (under York CE) that I did not join in the general euphoria about the Byrd Great service, which I thought, frankly, was a belt from beginning to end. Fashions change, and the gentle 'cathedral hoot' has all but disappeared; and I for one am often thrilled by the continental sound of, say NCO and Westminster Cathedral. And of course choirs such as York can sing quietly when they want to...as in the psalms on Wednesday's broadcast.

Widening the discussion to professional choirs such as Polyphony, Tenebrae, The Cambridge Singers, etc, they most certainly can and do sing quietly when needed. I always get into trouble when I dare mention the BBC Singers, but IMO they do oversing. I have just listened to The Choir which featured Richard Rodney Bennett and his choral music. Compared with the examples sung by the three choirs mentioned above, the pieces done by the Beeb Singers were un-subtle and sometimes shrieked. Oops...there I go again.

[Tony Halstead]

rowdy and ill-discipllined singing today. Is this a modern phenomenon though?

Hmmmm..... they are probably trying to sound like the Monteverdi Choir or the Gabrieli Consort, but, alas, without the guiding hands of their illustrious Directors...

[Gabriel Jackson]

Hmmmm..... they are probably trying to sound like the Monteverdi Choir or the Gabrieli Consort, but, alas, without the guiding hands of their illustrious Directors...

I doubt it.

[cloughie]

In amateur choirs belting it out seems to be easier than getting a proper light and shade balance - I have not got a strong musically trained background but I do have a pair of ears and know what i like to hear.

[DracoM]

Any choir, particularly with trained voices, can sing loudly, but it takes a really good choir to sing quietly, stay in pitch and in control.

[ardcarp]

There are so many amateur choirs in the UK of differing abilities, sizes, repertoires, and so on that it is impossible to generalise. It has been known, however, for very large amateur choirs to be trained to sing pianissississsimo. It requires a great deal of persistence (on the part of the director) and discipline (on the part of the members) but the effect is magical. I would even go so far as to suggest that a good amateur choir is more likely to be able to produce a first rate PPPP than a professional one!

[pole_2_pole]

Hmmmm..... they are probably trying to sound like the Monteverdi Choir or the Gabrieli Consort, but, alas, without the guiding hands of their illustrious Directors...

Why don't we find out tomorrow, Monteverdi Choir live on Radio 3 at 7.30pm... But I'm sure it'll be EQ'd beyond belief!

[EnemyoftheStoat]

....EQ'd beyond belief!

Those few words highlight the danger of basing your comparisons on what you are hearing from recordings, broadcasts etc. Do try and hear a choir in the flesh sometime if you get the chance.

[Gabriel Jackson]

I would even go so far as to suggest that a good amateur choir is more likely to be able to produce a first rate PPPP than a professional one!

Then you would be wrong!

[MrGongGong]

I think the real answer is that they have been using non EU approved iPods ........... so if you want your choirs to have a wide dynamic range don't vote kipper

[Magnificat]

Despite two excellent recent broadcasts of the same service - from John's Cambridge which displayed a fabulous range of colour, control and detail,..

What we heard of it. We had to imagine the Bach cantata!

VCC

[Vile Consort]

I attended a lot of evensongs at John's in the mid seventies and my recollection is that the choir, then under George Guest, was pretty loud ... much louder by far than the choir down the road.

[decantor]

I attended most evensongs at John's in the early sixties, and my recollection is that the choir, then under George Guest, was pretty restrained and introverted...... far more so than the choir down the road.

St John's loud? Under Guest? Their timbre was more focused, maybe, but loud they were not. In the early sixties, that is.

[DracoM]

I'm afraid I'm inclined to agree with Decantor. OK, the acoustic in John's is far less resonant than KCC, but it was intensity rather than volume that was striking.

One memorable CE there was ended when Jean Langlais was helped to the organ and gave an impromptu improvisation. I remember the choir drifting back to listen as two or three choristers tidied up. Bizarre but wonderful.