I was glad

[Pabmusic]

This might be of interest. Have you paid your PRS dues?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Birthday_to_You

[PJPJ]

Here's Sawkins v Hyperion: http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2005/565.html

Note that Dr Sawkins was not claiming copyright in Lalande's music - only in the performing editions he prepared and which were used for the recording. The judgement says he made some 3000 editorial interventions, and realised the figured bass. I'd say that was pretty significant, and the court obviously thought so.

A very sad case. As I'm sure most know, Sawkins and Skidmore had collaborated previously on a recording for another label, and Sawkins had been paid for his work then.

EDIT: To clarify, Sawkins was invited to collaborate by providing his material.

[David Underdown]

For music, there's also typographic copyright of the actual layout, which is either 25 or 50 years. You can't simply photocopy such a score, but if the music (and text) are out of copyright, there's nothing to stop you transcribing them and making your own edition

Don't forget also that in the UK BCP and King James bible are effectively in perpetual copyright, still being covered by Letters Patent, rather than being in the scope of subsequent copyright legislation (which began with the Statute of Anne). Strictly you can only reproduce these texts by the permission of the Queen's Printer (presently CUP). Then there's the matter of Crown Copyright

[PJPJ]

Thank you for that - the world of the copyright is more complicated than I thought.

I own the copyrights to a number of books and discovered a few years ago one was published and sold in the US by a small US publisher. The US appears to have its own rules, and I understand that if you haven't reserved copyright there, your material is effectively up for grabs. Doing anything about it seemed more trouble than it was worth, and it seems so still.

[Pabmusic]

...The US appears to have its own rules, and I understand that if you haven't reserved copyright there, your material is effectively up for grabs. Doing anything about it seemed more trouble than it was worth, and it seems so still.

Yes it does, as do Canada, Australia, China, Russia and the rest. The EU rules (life plus 70 years) are simple by comparison with the US ones. The piece I posted in 91 above is about the copyright position of "Happy Birthday to You", which (if it is correct) will not be out of copyright in the US until 2030 - and 2016 in the EU. It was written in the 1890s!

[Zimbelstern]

1902 version with original Vivats

Here it is- with its original underwhelming opening- and the Vivats are VERY different.
It's sung here by the choir of St Barnabas Dulwich last weekend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xacPK5RLwSs&sns=em

[ardcarp]

Thanks for that, Zimbelstern! Fascinating. Apart from the Vivats, one can only be glad for Parry's later revisions (if they be by him) to the intro and transitional bits. A bravely stately tempo chosen for a parish church...and the conductor managed to keep them to it!

[Simon Biazeck]

Thanks for that, Zimbelstern! Fascinating. Apart from the Vivats, one can only be glad for Parry's later revisions (if they be by him) to the intro and transitional bits. A bravely stately tempo chosen for a parish church...and the conductor managed to keep them to it!

The revisions are certainly by Parry - of that there is no doubt.

[weston752]

The revisions are certainly by Parry - of that there is no doubt.

Have a look at Professor Jeremy Dibble's book on Parry if you want the full story on this - it has also has the score of the original introduction.

[mercia]

I see that another youtube video has the accompanying 1953 score
I had always heard gi-na-E from the phrase Regina Elizabetha as a quaver+ 2 semiquavers but I see in the score that it's actually a quaver triplet

[Simon Biazeck]

Have a look at Professor Jeremy Dibble's book on Parry if you want the full story on this - it has also has the score of the original introduction.

I may do that! - thanks, although I understand his reasons.

[yorks_bass]

Here it is- with its original underwhelming opening- and the Vivats are VERY different.
It's sung here by the choir of St Barnabas Dulwich last weekend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xacPK5RLwSs&sns=em

Interesting opening. Understandable change too! Can't quite get used to the unusual (Italianate) pronunciation of 'vivat regina'. Am I right in thinking that the traditional English version is still more common? Which would be more probable in a future coronation?!

[Pabmusic]

...Apart from the Vivats, one can only be glad for Parry's later revisions (if they be by him) to the intro and transitional bits...

Yes, they are. I posted this in the middle of the thread, so it's easy to miss: http://www.rcm.ac.uk/library/iwasglad/

It's the autograph full score of the 1911 version, which is the one we know. It's all in Parry's hand. Of course, the 'vivats' are different, as they are at each coronation. The 1953 coronation was unusual in that there was only one person crowned, so the 'vivats' are very different indeed. If Camilla is crowned (which would be the tradition for the wife of a king) we'll revert to something like the earlier patterns.

The 1902 (Alexandra/Edwardus) and 1911 (Maria/Georgius) versions are Parry's own. The 1936 (Elizabetha/Georgius) version was by Henry Walford Davies , who was Master of the King's Music, and I imagine the 1953 (Elizabetha) version was by Arnold Bax (though I don't know that - Gordon Jacob made a big contribution to the coronation music, so it might have been his doing). In each case, of course, they are in keeping with Parry's scheme.

[Wolsey]

The 1902 (Alexandra/Edwardus) and 1911 (Maria/Georgius) versions [of the 'vivats'] are Parry's own. The 1936 (Elizabetha/Georgius) version was by Henry Walford Davies , who was Master of the King's Music, and I imagine the 1953 (Elizabetha) version was by Arnold Bax (though I don't know that - Gordon Jacob made a big contribution to the coronation music, so it might have been his doing).

I contacted Professor Dibble about the 1953 'vivats', and he thinks that they are probably by Gordon Jacob who, I've subsequently found out, arranged the anthem for the occasion.

[Pabmusic]

I contacted Professor Dibble about the 1953 'vivats', and he thinks that they are probably by Gordon Jacob.

Ah - that fits with other coronation bits he did. Thanks.