I was glad

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

though I still don't quite see why he should be thought of as the "English" anything, particularly given the Welsh origins of his surname!...

Fair point. But wouldn't a "Welsh Bruch" be a "bach"?

[Pabmusic]

I think that this is fair enough, if a little generous to Parry, though I still don't quite see why he should be thought of as the "English" anything, particularly given the Welsh origins of his surname!...

Parry certainly thought of himself as English - there's lots of evidence of that - just as Vaughan Williams did.

As far as 'the English Brahms' goes, Parry would probably have been shocked and embarrassed that anyone would have thought so. He was nonetheless a fine composer, whose music is often more distinctive than that of some of his contemporaries (Stanford, Cowen and Mackenzie, for instance, all of whom wrote fine music).

[ahinton]

Fair point. But wouldn't a "Welsh Bruch" be a "bach"?

Indeed so (or should I say "indeed to goodness"!) - et touché, but Parry certainly wasn't one of them, look you...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Indeed so (or should I say "indeed to goodness"!) - et touché, but Parry certainly wasn't one of them, look you...

But Joseph Parry was...

[ahinton]

But Joseph Parry was...

I know, but I'd assumed that we were discussing Sir Hubert Hastings rather than him in the present context...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I know, but I'd assumed that we were discussing Sir Hubert Hastings rather than him in the present context...

Of course. I was just showing off.

[BBMmk2]

I think that this is fair enough, if a little generous to Parry, though I still don't quite see why he should be thought of as the "English" anything, particularly given the Welsh origins of his surname!...

Welsh/British?

[ahinton]

Welsh/British?

Not the point, if I may say so - the point instead being that there's no more earthly reason why Parry should be thought of as the "English" or any other kind of "Brahms" than there is for Pettersson to be thought of as the "Swedish Mahler".

[Pabmusic]

Ahinton's absolutely right. Parry was Parry, who happened to be English*. He was neither Brahms nor an imitation of Brahms.

* He was descended from Joan Parry, the midwife who delivered Anne Boleyn of the Princess Elizabeth. Another Parry ancestor, whose name I forget, was Queen Elizabeth's chaplain, who gave her the last rites. The most directly Welsh connexion I know was that Lady Maud was daughter of the Earl of Pembroke.

[Finzi4ever]

Having dug out my copy of the 1902 service (as you do!) I can confirm that Vivat Regina Alexandra! Vivat Rex Edwardus! was sung/shouted by the scholars of Westminster School. Alexandra got one set of Vivats, Edward got two. The 1902 version of the intro to the anthem is the same length as the revised 1911 version, but musically totally different - the earlier one has a rather sombre air to it rather than festive or ceremonial.
RJ

Thanks for that definitive declaration! How does the underlay work then with the scansion of those syllables, especially of Eduardus? & is EdWardus, really spelled with the W not a U?

[Roger Judd]

Difficult to do without the music, but here goes. Vi-vat Re-gi-na A-lex-an-dra! starts on the 1st beat c,q, sqrest, sq,q,q,q,q,c,c. Vi-vat Rex Ed-ward-us! again starting on the 1st beat, all crotchets, and, yes, he is spelt with a W. Between the vivats for the Queen and the King the trumpet fanfare, which for her is in G, goes up a tone, to A, for him - thereafter all is as usual. Hope that makes sense.
RJ

[ardcarp]

It would be good if ff could arrange some music-writing facility so we could post thumbnail sketches in m/s. OTOH.....

[Roger Judd]

Just one more aside on the 1902 Coronation. In the service book rubric is this rather choice note; 'At the end of the Creed one of the Bishops ... begins the Sermon, which is to be short, and suitable to the great occasion.'
RJ

[MrGongGong]

It would be good if ff could arrange some music-writing facility so we could post thumbnail sketches in m/s. OTOH.....

seems to work for me ?

http://d29ci68ykuu27r.cloudfront.net/product/Look-Inside/large/1038969_01.jpg

or even

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~digimus/xenakis/images/figures/full/fig41a.gif

and

http://g.sheetmusicplus.com/Look-Inside/large/1614286_01.jpg

[ Ed: Bit doubtful about copyright position on sheet music. I've replaced the [IMG] code by [URL] for the moment.

ff ]

[DracoM]

Love to know how many copywright laws you are /and now we are breaking?
Kronos Quartet might sue on 'Black Angels' material?

Blimey.