CE St John's College, Cambridge May 2nd 2012

[DracoM]

On CE.

[Wolsey]

This is one of the termly Cantata Evensong series which began in the previous academic year during the College's Quincentenary Year. I heard one of these services in May last year during the Music Masters' and Mistresses' Association conference; there was barely a seat to be found in the chapel or ante-chapel. The quality of both the singing and the orchestral playing (under Maggie Faultless) was, of course, second to none.

[orbis factor]

This is one of the termly Cantata Evensong series which began in the previous academic year during the College's Quincentenary Year. I heard one of these services in May last year during the Music Masters' and Mistresses' Association conference; there was barely a seat to be found in the chapel or ante-chapel. The quality of both the singing and the orchestral playing (under Maggie Faultless) was, of course, second to none.

Of course. Heard them do a movt from Nun danket over the w/e. Sounded fab.

[Gabriel Jackson]

This is one of the termly Cantata Evensong series which began in the previous academic year during the College's Quincentenary Year. I heard one of these services in May last year during the Music Masters' and Mistresses' Association conference; there was barely a seat to be found in the chapel or ante-chapel. The quality of both the singing and the orchestral playing (under Maggie Faultless) was, of course, second to none.

I'm not surprised to hear this!

And they've been performing Baroque music generally since the beginning of George Guest's time (at least) so the idea that this is somehow all new to them/likely to be a bit beyond them is somewhat bizarre!

[orbis factor]

[b] We tend not to hear very often too many such boy-led Oxbridge choirs in big-scale Bach, live and in a liturgical setting.

On CE.

Do we often hear big-scale Bach sung by non boy-led choirs live on CE?

[switchedon]

I think the point is that we very rarely (if ever?) see Bach cantatas performed in liturgical context and it will hopefully be a great joy to hear live 'period playing' on CE.

And as far as St John's is concerned, Draco has a point that while John's has done wonders with baroque music (the haydn masses series, mozart, purcell for example), Bach has been fairly absent from the radar. Jesu meine freude in Welsh perhaps. However this cantata series which has been going on for more than just a year, Wolsey (since 2008 I believe), is not only groundbreaking for SJC but also for CE and for British choirs in general in its performance of cantatas in the liturgical setting which they were written for.

Can't wait!

[Gabriel Jackson]

I think the point is that we very rarely (if ever?) see Bach cantatas performed in liturgical context and it will hopefully be a great joy to hear live 'period playing' on CE.

And as far as St John's is concerned, Draco has a point that while John's has done wonders with baroque music (the haydn masses series, mozart, purcell for example), Bach has been fairly absent from the radar. Jesu meine freude in Welsh perhaps. However this cantata series which has been going on for more than just a year, Wolsey (since 2008 I believe), is not only groundbreaking for SJC but also for CE and for British choirs in general in its performance of cantatas in the liturgical setting which they were written for.

Can't wait!

Was that the point?!

Anglican Evensong isn't quite the liturgical setting Bach wrote his cantats for!
Excellent as the St John's Bach project is, the choir of St Mary's Cathedral, Edinburgh were performing Bach cantatas at Evebsong on a monthly basis a few years ago...

[DracoM]

GJ, do you know of a church / foundation in UK that does do Bach cantatas in the same liturgical context the composer might have expected?
The Lutheran Church of St Anne's in London perhaps?

[orbis factor]

GJ, do you know of a church / foundation in UK that does do Bach cantatas in the same liturgical context the composer might have expected?
The Lutheran Church of St Anne's in London perhaps?

St Anne's is correct. I play for them sometimes. They've been on CE in the past.

[Keraulophone]

Bach Cantatas in liturgical performance in Britain

'this cantata series which has been going on for more than just a year, Wolsey (since 2008 I believe), is not only groundbreaking for SJC but also for CE and for British choirs in general in its performance of cantatas in the liturgical setting[/B]'

Gabriel is obviously correct that Choral Evensong in the chapel of St John's Cambridge is not the liturgical setting for which J S Bach wrote his cantatas. However, switchedon[-Bach? Wendy Carlos!] clearly meant 'a liturgical setting', not one in Leipzig, and certainly not one in the Leipzig of 1730, unless Dr Who will be landing in Evensong.

My emphasis in the quote questions how much new ground is being broken here, since the performance of Bach Cantatas within a liturgical context in this country (don't know about Wales, switchedon) began a while ago, encouraged by such labours of love as Paul Steinitz's first complete cycle of Bach's extant church and secular cantatas to be presented in public concerts in the UK using professional forces (the [South] London Bach Society and later the Steinitz Bach Players), a project begun in 1958 and finished in 1987 just before his death, and Peter Lea-Cox's (non-liturgical?) Cantata series during the later 1970s-80s at St Mary-at-Hill, in the City (the one blown up by the IRA) with forces largely from the RAM, where Steinitz had been a Prof. since the war. Those early English performances, many of which pre-date the Harnoncourt/Leonhardt era, must have inculcated in many graduates from the RAH and other music colleges/universities a desire to hear and perform this almost unknown but inspirational music; and because many of those graduates were organists, they naturally took the Cantatas into their churches, at first in concert, and later on as part of church services.

Thirty years on, Robert Sharpe has performed Bach Cantatas with orchestra at Evensong at York, as, to a lesser extent, has Chris Gray at Truro: recently BWV 191, with a liturgical B minor Mass (!) with orchestra to follow on Sun 10 June. At least it can be said that AMN has acted as a catalyst at the present time, given the obvious link here, but surely there have been other performances, if not series, of Bach Cantatas within church/chapel/cathedral services around the UK. I couldn't find specific reference to Bach Cantatas on the St Anne's Lutheran Church website, Draco, but there is an annual Bach Festival at this Wren church of St Anne & St Agnes, now in its 16th year, with the final concert on 28 July, the anniversary of Bach's death. 'The Home of Bach in London' they claim, complete with Cantor Martin Knizia > http://stanneslutheranchurch.org.uk/page/music. Must make an effort to visit Gresham St when next in the metropolis.

As for the probably incomplete BWV 192, it's surviving three movements are the perfect duration for a R3 CE at around 12 mins as well as being suitably praising for Easter 4, and it is likely to show off to perfection the virtuosity and musicianship of the choir and the St John's Sinfonia, which unless I missed it, is making its live broadcast debut on R3. The college used to engage members of the OAE for cantata Evensongs, but they may of course be the same players. It will be interesting to hear whether the soprano/bass aria employs a treble or an imported soprano today. The soprano engaged at Bach Cantata Evensong when I last visited SJC was really excellent, but curiously she wasn't credited on the service-sheet, unlike the male soloists from the choir! I hope to hear a treble duettist this afternoon, but the lady may be paying a return visit. All-male (or nearly) little-known Bach performed by the best in the business sent live to my listening room - does home life get any better than this?



(Note to Gabriel - Grayston Burgess and Peter Giles were in yesterday for SS Pip & Jim, with your Mass on the menu; I am sure they appreciated the Tye-like Sanctus & Byrd-like Agnus!)

[Wolsey]

[...]Thirty years on, Robert Sharpe has performed Bach Cantatas with orchestra at Evensong at York, as, to a lesser extent, has Chris Gray at Truro: recently BWV 191, with a liturgical B minor Mass (!) with orchestra to follow on Sun 10 June. At least it can be said that AMN has acted as a catalyst at the present time, given the obvious link here, but surely there have been other performances, if not series, of Bach Cantatas within church/chapel/cathedral services around the UK. I couldn't find specific reference to Bach Cantatas on the St Anne's Lutheran Church website, Draco, but there is an annual Bach Festival at this Wren church of St Anne & St Agnes, now in its 16th year, with the final concert on 28 July, the anniversary of Bach's death.

This is the link http://lecosaldi.homestead.com/history.html , and the evening performances at Gresham Street have indeed been liturgical. God help us with a liturgical performance of the Bach B minor Mass though! It was never intended to be heard as such, wonderful though the music is.

[Keraulophone]

Many thanks for that link, Wolsey - a very interesting read.

So PL-C's Bach Cantatas at St Mary-at-Hill pre-dated those at St Anne & St Agnes.

I forgot to add, parts of the B minor Mass, but judging by your plea for Divine intervention, you no doubt approved of PL-C's decision not to put on his B minor in St Anne's, but over the road in Goldsmiths’ Hall. Anyone within striking distance of Truro will be most welcome to partake in a service Bach never intended us to hear (Peter L-C, you're only in the next county!), somewhat lengthened by (just) the Gloria, Sanctus and Agnus Dei of the B minor, though it might be more convenient for others to tune in to CE this time next week - but no JSB , all 20th & 21st C.

Now the red light is glowing, time for some more Bach...

[ardcarp]

May I just make a generic point that the word 'anthem' is used very loosely indeed in the Anglican Church. Almost any sort of setting with words of a vaguely sacred nature is called an 'anthem', be it a pre-Ref Marian motet or a Negro Spiritual, be it short or long, be it a solo or a full blown work with instrumental forces, be it sung in English, German, Latin, Russian, Spanish.... I won't go on! In the immediate post-Restoration period, most 'anthems' seemed to be settings of words from the Psalms but this gradually relaxed thgrough the 19th and early 20th centuries.

[french frank]

In the immediate post-Restoration period, most 'anthems' seemed to be settings of words from the Psalms but this gradually relaxed thgrough the 19th and early 20th centuries.

Though the word has the same derivation as 'antiphon'.

[Finzi4ever]

2 weeks in a row!!!!