Music teaching and outcomes in schools

[MrGongGong]

aaah Wilder Opportunities ................ great opportunity for a bit of Ligeti pastiche with 30 children who picked up the cello for the first time last week

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

aaah Wilder Opportunities ................ great opportunity for a bit of Ligeti pastiche with 30 children who picked up the cello for the first time last week

It's just another tick-box.

[MrGongGong]

It's just another tick-box.

I've been to a couple of schools where this HAS been a springboard to greater participation in music
BUT
for most it's a bit of a waste IMV
and sad to see students who have real interest and potential give up

[Magnificat]

I know nothing about schools these days but I have often wondered about the effectiveness of Ofsted inspections.

I believe they spend about two days in a school I would be very dubious as to whether they can judge the whole ethos of the place in that short time.

My nephew has Asperger's syndrome and one of the characteristics of this as well as high intelligence is that sufferers are unable to tell lies and do not understand the concept of a white lie to let people down gently as it were and can be blunt to the point of rudeness. He often tells teachers that they are talking out of their backsides, for example, rather than saying " Sorry Miss/Sir I don't agree with you". In one Ofsted inspection of his very well regarded comprehensive in a leafy part of Hertfordshire he told one of the inspectors straight that there was a lot of low level misbehaviour which disrupted lessons and made it hard for him to concentrate on what the teacher was saying ( this would have been absolutely true) but the school still received its usual outstanding grading.

VCC

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I've been to a couple of schools where this HAS been a springboard to greater participation in music
BUT
for most it's a bit of a waste IMV
and sad to see students who have real interest and potential give up

There's a danger that pupils see learning an instrument as something involving lessons and no practice.

[MrGongGong]

My nephew has Asperger's syndrome and one of the characteristics of this as well as high intelligence is that sufferers

Please don't refer to people with Asperger's as "sufferers"
it's not a disease you know
and there are many things that I envy about those with ASD

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Please don't refer to people with Asperger's as "sufferers"
it's not a disease you know
and there are many things that I envy about those with ASD

Don't envy them too much. It can be quite a burden.

[MrGongGong]

Don't envy them too much. It can be quite a burden.

As a parent of someone with Aspergers I'm very aware of what it entails
but I do think regarding it as something that one "suffers" is a big mistake and not accurate at all

when my son was diagnosed with Aspergers the specialists final words were
"help yourself to a viola from the pile by the door"

[Wolsey]

As I understand it, Ofsted does have a role in the inspection of independent schools:

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/schools/for...endent-schools

Ah, thanks for that, Ardcarp. In other words, schools where the headteachers are not members of associations which comprise the ISC.

[DracoM]

And you notice that even with an 'integrated inspection' they only spend two days at a boarding school? TWO days? Anyone with any notion of how complex a boarding school is might ask how they can do any more than get a very sketchy snapshot in two days. But there you go. What do I know? How big are the inspection teams?

[MrGongGong]

aaah yes but like Oxbridge .......... surely there's no need at all to visit these schools as they are automatically far superior to any in the state system

[DracoM]

They have blemishes, drawbacks, shortcomings as all the rest, but are very astute at cosmetic surgery.

[Magnificat]

Please don't refer to people with Asperger's as "sufferers"
it's not a disease you know
and there are many things that I envy about those with ASD

Mr GG

I know it's not a disease. But they certainly suffer from it as a condition they are born with and can't help. My poor nephew has gone through hell with it.

VCC

[decantor]

Re School Inspections. I've been away from the chalk-face for a dozen years now (oh blessed release!), but I faced both Ofsted and (old-style) ISI inspections during my last decade as Housemaster and teacher in a boarding school.

Ofsted were very formal in approach: shut themselves away in the room allocated to them, and made no social contact with staff, parents, or kids. They also demanded much needless paperwork. But they were not hard-bitten or hypercritical, and their post-observation discussions were sensible, good-natured, even helpful, and occasionally congratulatory. I suppose it all depends on the team you get. At the same time, Social Services sent two ladies of a certain age to check out our boarding provision; they didn't have a clue about the particular concerns of boarders or those who cared for them, but they adored the curtains and teddy bears.

ISI were formal only on matters of compliance. Since the team comprised HMs and senior staff from schools similar to our own, the outcome was more like entertaining guests who were present to share their experience and learn from ours. The boarding specialist was of such distinction that one hung on his every word. He did not disappoint.

Re Asperger's. I have sometimes wondered - fancifully, perhaps - if the condition we refer to as Asperger's is in fact the next stage of human evolution. It is now possible to communicate with the world from a darkened room, with no conventional social interaction: just what they need. Asperger's "sufferers" (sic) present enormous creativity - talent in the arts and in problem-solving and application - that remains largely untapped. We should at least nurture them more so that they can make their contribution, and maybe lead us to a better future. After all, Gary McKinnon outwitted the Pentagon, yet we contemplate an extradition that will subject him to criminal proceedings. Why is he not directing a department of GCHQ? (From his bedroom, of course.)

[Pabmusic]

...My nephew has Asperger's syndrome and one of the characteristics of this as well as high intelligence is that sufferers are unable to tell lies and do not understand the concept of a white lie to let people down gently as it were and can be blunt to the point of rudeness...

I have Asperger's, and did not have it confirmed until about two years ago. When it was, so much about my life fell into place. The contentment at doing things by myself, the real intensity of it all, the inward panic at having one's routines disrupted, the social awkwardness, the inability to do things easily just 'for a laugh' - and the encyclopaedic knowledge, deep interests, and constant mental activity. Also the social bullying (intentional at school, unthinking later) because I was an 'outsider', awkward in 'light' social situations, but with a few close friends going back 30 years or more. There's more, much of it compensated for because I had a high-level job that brought with it a degree of social acceptance that I might have found it awkward to achieve otherwise. Of course, neither I nor anyone else thought this was anything other than down to my 'personality'. Except my daughter, that is, who worked with autism for several years and who, when I told her I had Asperger's, replied, "But Dad, I knew that years ago"!

The basic thing about Asperger's is that, although it's a form of autism, those who have it want to have social interaction with others, rather than shy away from it. Trouble is, they don't have the natural ability to pick up on the thousands of signs we all exhibit in our interactions, making them prone to respond inappropriately (there was an earlier post that told of an inability to lie; the corollary is that it's more natural to tell the truth rather than a white lie - which can often be hurtful). Fortunately, Aspies (horrible, isn't it?) almost always have average-to-hign intelligence and can develop coping strategies, understanding their situation and learning what is expected. This doesn't mean they can ever do it 'normally' - their brains are probably wired differently - so they end up playing an elaborate game throughout their adult lives - and knowing it's a game. I can't think how many times over the years I have been conscious that I was just saying a form of words, or acting in a particular way, because it was expected of me to do so - often with some impatience because I wanted to get down to the serious business (particularly apposite when I was involved in negotiations!). Also, I often found long telephone conversations slightly awkward, because I could not see the other person and pick up the clues I knew would be there if we were face-to-face.

Those who have enjoyed the TV series 'New Tricks' will remember the character played by Alun Armstrong - clearly an Aspie, to my mind at least, if sometimes a caricature.

Whether I'd have liked to know all this when I was a boy, I'm not so sure; I'd probably have become frustrated very easily, with poor coping mechanisms. The condition was known of - just - but the late 50s-earlly 60s was hardly a good time to promote the work of an ex-Nazi psychologist!

Please don't refer to people with Asperger's as "sufferers"
it's not a disease you know
and there are many things that I envy about those with ASD

I quite agree. There are many good things. There is something quite nice about knowing you (quite possibly) share the condition with Mozart, Beethoven, Elgar, Bruckner, Mahler, Richard Strauss, Bartok, Newton, Darwin, Einstein, Turing, and Marylin Monroe (and a host of others) - all of whom exhibited enough symptoms of Asperger's. Not to mention those still with us, such as Michael Palin, Tony Benn and Bob Dylan. (Elgar and Mahler probably had bi-polar disorder, too - it's not uncommon with Asperger's, apparently.)