Music teaching and outcomes in schools

[Anna]

Actually, our county council is committed without a load of drippy hippies!

[Mary Chambers]

One Choir in the semi finals was from Wales, Ysgol Strade Llanelli, a state school and very good I thought, (who performed in their school uniforms) but the rest? Funded by Mummy and Daddy Pushy Parents in glamour outfits!

Some of the outfits were horrendous, particularly the fuchsia dresses, I thought. Much prefer the school uniforms.

I enjoyed the Welsh choir very much, but I did wonder whether they should have sung so much in Welsh, since diction and expressing the text were criteria used by the judges. I doubt if any of the judges spoke Welsh.

[Anna]

I enjoyed the Welsh choir very much, but I did wonder whether they should have sung so much in Welsh, since diction and expressing the text were criteria used by the judges. I doubt if any of the judges spoke Welsh.

Erm, sorry singing in Welsh? You are joking, what do you expect us to sing in in Wales - English?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

But the point is, here in this County I live in of Wales, we have 3 choirs at the Comp, all of which contest at inter-county level, plus orchestras who tour Austria and Germany each year. But no-one knows about them, because, perhaps the parents/Governors cannot raise the funds to compete (trips to London, etc) Whereas Independent School parents can?

One Choir in the semi finals was from Wales, Ysgol Strade Llanelli, a state school and very good I thought, (who performed in their school uniforms) but the rest? Funded by Mummy and Daddy Pushy Parents in glamour outfits!

The truth is that we have a great deal to learn from Welsh culture.

On the question of language, I recall my student days at a Welsh university college. They were to perform Elgar's oratorio "The Kingdom", and borrowed my vocal score and LP set, in order to translate it into Welsh. Yet they performed Verdi's Requiem flawlessly in Latin.

[ardcarp]

I have seen a vocal score of Messiah in Welsh with the notation erntirely in solfa. All Greek to me.


Anna:

but the rest? Funded by Mummy and Daddy Pushy Parents in glamour outfits!

..you will have noticed I'm a bit of a lefty too. However one cannot blame the kids for their privileged situation. Underneath it all they're pretty much the same. And while some parents can probably fork out the school fees without flinching, others make huge sacrifices because they want the best for their kids. What annoys me is that often the state sector will not, and does not want to, learn from the best the independent schools have to offer. When I suggested to our local comp head (whose school had failed to produce a play let alone a musical for years) that a trip should be organised to see Cabaret done by a neighbouring independent school, he said, "I don't think that would go down well with our staff here". Er, why not?

[MrGongGong]

What annoys me is that often the state sector will not, and does not want to, learn from the best the independent schools have to offer.

You mean like class sizes ?

What really annoys me is that we have handed over our children's education to a load of free market idiots who shouldn't be left alone with a pair of safety scissors

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Class size can never be made an excuse for not singing.

[MrGongGong]

Class size can never be made an excuse for not singing.

Of course not

It has (according to the government) no effect at all on the quality of education which is why they all send their children to schools with classes of 14

[ardcarp]

Mrs Ardcarp looked up the Ofsted report for one of the junior schools whose choir featured in the S of P competition. The school was in 'special measures', but a single sentence buried within the report said, 'the school is said to have a good choir'. One of my g-kids however attends a primary school which is 'excellent' according to Ofsted. It has no choir, no orchestra, no music... and indeed no aspiration to be good at anything. I am in no way associated with the world of education, but looking at it as an outsider, I suspect that league-table climbing (aka box-ticking) is a greater concern to head teachers than matters of substance. Is this news to anyone?

[DracoM]

No.

Far from it. Ofsted has been the secret stalker with malice and negative intent written into its statutes, and has never IMO functioned as intended.

The old HMI scheme worked well. In that there was both criticism, inspection and DISCUSSION about how to improve by experienced and concerned teachers. Standing around with pursed lips and a clipboard is precisely the way to stop education in its best sense in its tracks.

In the independent sector, so I am told, the Ofsted inspectors often arrive without the slightest experience of boarding school life at all, and a number manifestly hostile to the sector. There are stories!

[Wolsey]

In the independent sector, so I am told, the Ofsted inspectors often arrive without the slightest experience of boarding school life at all, and a number manifestly hostile to the sector. There are stories!

Independent schools are inspected by the ISI http://www.isi.net , and as its website explains, ISI teams include serving headteachers from other schools in membership of Independent Schools Council (ISC) Association schools, and so judgements throughout inspection reports reflect expectations in these schools, as well as those found in schools nationally. From my own experience of being in a teaching post during three ISI inspections, the stories you mention don't quite match reality. There may indeed be exceptions, though.

[DracoM]

I'm going on stories told me by friends in the last three months. Yes, things are stricter now under ISI, BUT in the 2nd para, I said the old HMI system it was significantly different. That was the point I was trying to make.
Change 'without slightest' to 'surprisingly little'? any better. Phrase I used was a direct quote from a friend - well, actually not 'direct' since I#d never get what she actually said past the Hosts. Yes, there are always some on team who do have, but friend relates how one inspector was amazed when he went out into the corridor at break to look at the social mix and get the feel of the more informal interaction between students, only to find practically no student in the buildings at all. Correct - they've all gone back to their boarding houses. Erm...........?

[ardcarp]

As I understand it, Ofsted does have a role in the inspection of independent schools:

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/schools/for-schools/inspecting-schools/inspecting-independent-schools

An old friend of mine, a long-serving and experienced prep-school master, prostituted himself to Ofsted for the first few years of his retirement. He talked the talk, walked the walk, and realised the whole thing was cobblers. But he took the cash.

[MrGongGong]

There is, of course, a way out of all of this now
if you become a "free" school you can employ who you like regardless of whether they know anything about teaching at all

"Free Schools do not have to employ teachers with Qualified Teacher Status (although certain specialist posts will still require QTS). Instead, Free Schools have the freedom to appoint the people they believe are best equipped to deliver their unique educational vision, for example an experienced instructor or lecturer from a further education institution. Ensuring the highest quality of teaching is paramount to the success of each school." (http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/...ools-workforce)

what a great idea

I hope this will soon apply to airlines as i've always wanted a go at flying a plane (and I did get a planespotters badge in the cubs )

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

No.

Far from it. Ofsted has been the secret stalker with malice and negative intent written into its statutes, and has never IMO functioned as intended.

The old HMI scheme worked well. In that there was both criticism, inspection and DISCUSSION about how to improve by experienced and concerned teachers. Standing around with pursed lips and a clipboard is precisely the way to stop education in its best sense in its tracks.

In the independent sector, so I am told, the Ofsted inspectors often arrive without the slightest experience of boarding school life at all, and a number manifestly hostile to the sector. There are stories!

I've got one coming to watch me delivering a Wider Opportunities lesson later this week. Should I just offer the inspector 30 pieces of silver?