Music teaching and outcomes in schools

[ardcarp]

Mrs Ardcarp and I have just watched...er, well a singing competition...the school choirs 2012 senior semi-final. Not quite sure why this had to happen under the S of P banner. Aled was his jovial self. There was some really excellent singing; some great voices and interesting arrangements. Not sure how you judge mixed choirs with upper-voice-only choirs, but still. Of the three judges, I felt that only Susan Digby really knew her stuff. It is our opinion that any school community is capable of such high standards given the time, the will, the commitment and expert direction...BUT...these were all independent schools with the possible exception of the Welsh one (which was very good, and was one of the three picked for the final). There has been discussion of cathedral choirs being based around independent schools; and, oh dear, it seems that privilege rules here too. Domage! But well done the choirs...all of them were excellent....and it is good to know decent singing happens in some, I suspect rather few, schools. Not alas in the schools my tuneful g-kids attend.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

They were indeed excellent, as were the choirs in the primary schools' semi-final last week. For so long, singing has been marginalised in schools, prompted by pressure groups in the educational world. Now Ofsted is condemning schools for not singing enough. If it were anyone other than this 30-pieces-of-silver QUANGO saying this, I would be echoing it from the roof-tops. As it is, I doubt whether Ofsted is being sincere; they just like to stick pins in schools, teachers, methods, ideas, initiatives, inspiration... and then complain when these things are absent.
Dolores Umbridge lives!

[MrGongGong]

For so long, singing has been marginalised in schools, prompted by pressure groups in the educational world.!

I'm a little puzzled by this ?
Not sure who you mean in terms of "pressure groups" ?
Though music is under serious attack by the National Plan for Music Education
but given that the plans of the government are for all schools to be outside the National Curriculum and the obligation to employ qualified teachers etc (not to mention the whole nutrition thing which kicked off this weekend) I guess this all might become academic.

The Ofsted report has been given a few good knocks in spite of all the "welcoming" that these things get these days , I sometimes despair of those in music education who are too meek to actually stand up for what they supposedly believe in .......... EB has a lot to answer for as well


rant over ........... as you were

[Mary Chambers]

I saw the programme, and very good they were, but I agree that the judging panel, apart from Suzi Digby, was not up to the job. One was ...Russell Watson. Need I say more? The other, David Grant, seems to be a pop voice coach.

They were indeed all from independent schools, apart from the Welsh one. I'm glad that at least political correctness didn't mean inferior choirs from state schools were chosen to make a point, but it certainly didn't reassure me about singing in state schools - something that has worried me for a long time..

[DracoM]

R2 comes to kulchur TV/ Radio?
Aled Jones is really a R2 presenter.
And believe me, R2-isation of the kulchur is in all manner of schools, including independent schools. The number of independent schools that do NOT do big scale musicals, do rock, do songs from the shows in choir / orchestra concerts and the stuff the kids play in their studies is pretty well exactly the same as what is being played outside in the wider community. Melvyn Bragg is right in that class may be the substrate, BUT the 14-25 yr old adherence to the collective culture of rock/show tune/X-factor-style events is far, far stronger than almost any other kind of bonding.

[ardcarp]

Draco. I was trying not to focus on the presentation, i.e. the air-punching, the yuppies saying to camera, "like, amazing, yah?", and worst of all the big pause with drumbeat and panning onto anxious faces: 'the winner is................(half a minute elapses)......................'

We did hear some beginning to end performances, so thanks for small mercies.

Anyone remember this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jppYzgO3mHQ

Ignore the razz-ma-tazz and go for 'Firefly'. Beautiful and touching. Gary Jones is an amazing (oops, I said it) man.

[amateur51]

Draco. I was trying not to focus on the presentation, i.e. the air-punching, the yuppies saying to camera, "like, amazing, yah?", and worst of all the big pause with drumbeat and panning onto anxious faces: 'the winner is................(half a minute elapses)......................'

We did hear some beginning to end performances, so thanks for small mercies.

Anyone remember this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jppYzgO3mHQ

Ignore the razz-ma-tazz and go for 'Firefly'. Beautiful and touching. Gary Jones is an amazing (oops, I said it) man.

I'm full of admiration for his intentions and his methods, that the boys involved from 40 different schools should feel proud of themselves.They will never lose that feeling, I hope

[DracoM]

And it is instructive that the choir sing not just the somewhat schmaltzy arrangements of yesteryear's 'hits' but some very decent Lassus as well. And of course I am delighted that somewhere in UK there is so big a boys' choir singing and manifestly enjoying it.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Russell Watson was nothing more than a mascot, saying such pointless things as "I liked your smiley faces."

[MrGongGong]

And it is instructive that the choir sing not just the somewhat schmaltzy arrangements of yesteryear's 'hits' but some very decent Lassus as well. And of course I am delighted that somewhere in UK there is so big a boys' choir singing and manifestly enjoying it.

I think several things are important here
when people complain about the "lack of singing in schools" they often mean "the lack of singing of the music that I like and regard as morally improving"

what IS important is what school is for in the first place
and one of those things is

..... to learn about things that you wouldn't encounter anywhere else


Last year one of the projects I did was with some A level music students, they could be divided into 2 groups. 1/2 of them played orchestral instruments, some to a very high standard in local and national youth orchestras, the others had formed bands and did rock gigs. What they needed educationally were different things
the Rock musicians needed to spend some time singing Monteverdi Madrigals
and the Orchestral players needed to get into Japanese noise music

THAT is what school IS for , not reinforcing what you know already be it "Bugsy Mallone" or "Lassus" or even "Gorgoroth"

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I think several things are important here
when people complain about the "lack of singing in schools" they often mean "the lack of singing of the music that I like and regard as morally improving"

I certainly did not mean that, though I do consider it to be an important consideration. There really has been a huge drop in the amount of singing in secondary schools. The falling away of school choirs and the lack of singing in the classroom go hand in hand. For many, it is the music service singing teacher who does the only singing teaching.

[DracoM]

Tell me about the challenges? Moving music students out of their comfort zone - in any direction?

[muticus]

There is indeed a problem. Both my children sing in school - my daughter at her excellent, and small, village primary, which has a Sing Up Platinum award, and sings (and plays) an amazing range of material, all of it to a high standard. My son, as a former Chorister attends the Cathedral school and sings (and plays) a fantastic range of stuff in an amazing variety of groups and ensembles -but for a fee.
The crunch becomes obvious as we look at a Secondary for my daughter - there are five academically good state schools in the area, not one of which fields any sort of choir, and only one a very poor orchestra. There is a failure of provision between the state and the private sector, but also over the transition from primary to secondary. We have bitten the bullet and committed to a number of poverty stricken years of double school fees, but that is clearly not an option for most families.
I wish it were not so, and do not have a glib answer to this - all I do know is that I would truly hate it if either of my kids did not sing, as much and as well as possible.

[Anna]

But the point is, here in this County I live in of Wales, we have 3 choirs at the Comp, all of which contest at inter-county level, plus orchestras who tour Austria and Germany each year. But no-one knows about them, because, perhaps the parents/Governors cannot raise the funds to compete (trips to London, etc) Whereas Independent School parents can?

One Choir in the semi finals was from Wales, Ysgol Strade Llanelli, a state school and very good I thought, (who performed in their school uniforms) but the rest? Funded by Mummy and Daddy Pushy Parents in glamour outfits!

[Chris Newman]

Every county council makes promises with music and drama but few keep them. About ten years ago Wiltshire County Council had a live-wire American County Music Advisor who is still doing excellent work in another county council. He got some funding for a music scheme devised by James Froseth at the University of Michigan:

http://www.giamusic.com/bios/james-froseth

At the time I worked in a school which largely catered for kids from a large council estate and the Advisor experimentally introduced the scheme to our school. Within a year parents were buying trumpets and tubas. We had 2 large brass bands, recorder ensembles and choirs and many of the kids joined the Saturday morning local music classes. The kids were motivated. The behaviour in classes improved beyond all recognition. Then our friend moved to another county council. The funding stopped. The support in music lessons drained away and the whole thing fizzled out.