Good Friday Westminster Cathedral Radio 4 @ 3 p.m.

[DracoM]

A meditation on the Crucifixion in music and readings

Westminster Cathedral Choir

Fr James Hanvey SJ reflects on the final moments of Christ's earthly journey and how we continue to encounter the Crucified Christ in our daily lives.

Readings from the Gospel accounts of Christ's Passion and poetry.

Christus factus est (Bruckner)
Passion according to St John
Improperia - Tomas Luis de Victoria
Crux fidelis - King John of Portugal
Iesum tradidit impius - James MacMillan
O vos omnes - Pablo Casals
Lamentations - Thomas Tallis


Assistant Master of Music: Peter Stevens
Master of Music: Martin Baker

[ardcarp]

Good! I'll be sitting on a boat waiting for the tide to come in...and will have my tranny tuned in. Uplifting in more ways than one.

[MrGongGong]

how we continue to encounter the Crucified Christ in our daily lives.

I guess this means in a metaphorical sense then ?
Some people have no idea how completely bizarre this kind of statement is !
now back to Planet Gong

[DracoM]

Well, huge apologies. The above rich programme from the Drome website is of course NOTHING to do with the R4 broadcast, which was ..........pre-recorded, bland, and, for me, utterly dispiriting. I should have realised that at 3 p.m. on Good Friday, the Drome team would be in situ for their own 3 hr service, and not busking for R4. The OP list is clearly material they will be including in that Three Hour Devotion.

AAMOI, why does the Catholic Church on radio and TV so often insist on being fronted by Irish voices?

[jean]

Because a lot of Catholics are Irish, and a lot of Irish are Catholics. What's the problem?

(A link would have helped!)

[ardcarp]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b01f6bfd

Link as requested. It was a gentle broadcast. Nothing dramatic. It was a Good Friday meditation so maybe too prayerful for some, but the music was well and honestly sung (recorded though it was) with the choir sounding fine. Trebles less 'continental' perhaps than in a previous era. One very fruity bass who has been there for a while, I think.

[jean]

Thank you.

I've now heard it, and I agree - how do you decide between prayerful and bland? That's very much a matter of personal response it seems to me. And they could never have got all that music into half an hour, however fast they'd sung it. Have you any idea how long the Improperiae take? And the Crux Fidelis, if you do all the plainsong verses too?

(The Irish priest is on the Cathedral staff it appears, so it seems a bit hard to require him to absent himself from broadcasts so as not to offend the sensibilities of the English.)

[WmByrd]

I just LA'd to this, and can't disagree much more. I think the plainsong has become slow to the point of being ponderous, lumpy even, and all the line has gone from the polyphony also. The men sounded in fair health if you like that sort of thing (and if ardcarp listens carefully he might decide it's more than one fruity bass) but the boys sounded really dreadful. Pushed shouting doesn't compare with the disciplined focus which epitomised this choir's treble sound once upon a time. Upper-voice tuning is wayward at best. And as for the screeched high note in the Casals-ugh! What a pity. I stand by previous comments I made on another thread-a sad demise.

[Wolsey]

Everyone is, of course, entitled both to their own view and to express criticism - where justified. Do WmByrd's comments stand scrutiny?

I just LA'd to this, and can't disagree much more. I think the plainsong has become slow to the point of being ponderous, lumpy even, and all the line has gone from the polyphony also.

I thought that the plainchant Ecce lignum crucis was sung at a perfectly appropriate tempo for Good Friday afternoon and conveyed the meaning of the words fully. What polyphony is being referred to? Apart from the brief syllabic polyphonic episodes for 'crucifixus' and 'sub Pontio Pilato' in the Lotti, practically all the choral music was homophonic in texture. It also had evidence of line, and there was emotional power in the chains of suspensions in the Lotti.

...but the boys sounded really dreadful. Pushed shouting doesn't compare with the disciplined focus which epitomised this choir's treble sound once upon a time. Upper-voice tuning is wayward at best. And as for the screeched high note in the Casals-ugh! What a pity.

I listened again using good-quality audio equipment: this is unjustified and inaccurate. The boys-only verse of When I survey was very well sung, and while there are a couple of lads with a steel-like timbre, the ensemble, projection and tone traditionally associated with this choir were still in evidence. No doubt, you would be able to get your own boys' choir to sing top B flats with total ease and accuracy on every single occasion...

I stand by previous comments I made on another thread - a sad demise.

You have every right to do so, but unless their validity can be firmly substantiated, they appear empty and sniping when they are made and subsequently repeated when an opportunity allows.

[DracoM]

Wolsey, thanks for taking the trouble to refute.

[jean]

...the boys...Pushed shouting...the screeched high note in the Casals...

It was only of the Casals O vos omnes that any of this could could reasonably be said - and isn't it that sort of piece? Doesn't anyone remember what Good Friday is supposed to be about?

[Simon Biazeck]

Everyone is, of course, entitled both to their own view and to express criticism - where justified. Do WmByrd's comments stand scrutiny?



I thought that the plainchant Ecce lignum crucis was sung at a perfectly appropriate tempo for Good Friday afternoon and conveyed the meaning of the words fully. What polyphony is being referred to? Apart from the brief syllabic polyphonic episodes for 'crucifixus' and 'sub Pontio Pilato' in the Lotti, practically all the choral music was homophonic in texture. It also had evidence of line, and there was emotional power in the chains of suspensions in the Lotti.



I listened again using good-quality audio equipment: this is unjustified and inaccurate. The boys-only verse of When I survey was very well sung, and while there are a couple of lads with a steel-like timbre, the ensemble, projection and tone traditionally associated with this choir were still in evidence. No doubt, you would be able to get your own boys' choir to sing top B flats with total ease and accuracy on every single occasion...



You have every right to do so, but unless their validity can be firmly substantiated, they appear empty and sniping when they are made and subsequently repeated when an opportunity allows.

I do agree, Wolsey, what I heard of it was as good as ever, musically and vocally. I see no cause for criticism. The boys are a particularly well unified group at the moment. I dep. there regularly and standards are as high as ever. We did a Vespers for Christian Unity week at St Paul's before Lent and they were on very fine form across all parts. We premiered a new setting of Totus tuus by James Macmilllan on that occasion and they have just rec. a new disc of his music - it should be very exciting.

[Chris Watson]

Thanks for saying these things, Simon. I wish I was free to dep there more often than I am, but I was there for some of the MacMillan sessions recently and agree with you completely.

[Simon Biazeck]

Thanks for saying these things, Simon. I wish I was free to dep there more often than I am, but I was there for some of the MacMillan sessions recently and agree with you completely.

You're welcome! Lucky you re. the rec. - I look forward to hearing it!

[ardcarp]

Wm Byrd. I just don't recognise all the awfulness you describe from WC. The service wasn't meant to stun one into surprise...it was a G-F meditation on R4 and I think the treble sound was just fine. Somewhat 'muscular' singing is a feature of the place, largely because of the huge space to fill, but I heard no unpleasantness in the sound. That old George Malcolm Victoria Tenebrae LP delighted many of us when it appeared with its gutsy 'continental' sound, but in terms of tuning, blend and refinement, it wouldn't pass muster today.