King's Choir on BBC2/BBC HD on Holy Saturday, 17.05

[vinteuil]

Let's get this straight...
Holy Week, the week before Easter.
has - Palm Sunday (but RC now 'Passion Sunday')
etc
Maundy Thursday
Good Friday
Holy Saturday (Easter Eve, the Saturday before Easter, "called Easter Saturday by the unchurched" , as Leofranc Holford-Strevens tells us severely in the Oxford Book of the Year... )
then
Easter Day
then
Easter Monday, Easter Tuesday, Easter Wednesday, Easter Thursday, Easter Friday, Easter Saturday;
then
Low Sunday, the Sunday after Easter, Dominica in albis, or Quasimodo Sunday (from the introit at Mass - quasi modo geniti . "As new-born babes", 1 Pet 2:2; the Lutherans have it as Quasimodogenitii; in the east, 'Thomas Sunday'

[MrGongGong]

Yes yes yes and the Millenium didn't start till 2001 zzzzzzzzzzzzz

for most of us (that is the ones who don't do the christian thang) Easter Saturday is the one the is part of Easter weekend ...........

[jean]

Let's get this straight...
Holy Week, the week before Easter.
has - Palm Sunday (but RC now 'Passion Sunday')...

There are of course two Sundays that properly bear the name Passion; two weeks before Easter there is Domenica I Passionis, and a week later Domenica II Passionis, seu in Palmis.

[amateur51]

It's certainly not accurate since Easter doesn't start until Easter Day.

It's only then that Lent is over and Easter begins.

(Interesting to note that whatever BBC presenters come up with, Radio Times always gets it right.)

I didn't mention Easter, jean - the day after Good Friday is a Saturday (by definition and custom & practice ) and so to call it the Saturday after Good Friday is accurate and descriptive

[MrGongGong]

There are of course two Sundays that properly bear the name Passion; two weeks before Easter there is Domenica I Passionis, and a week later Domenica II Passionis, seu in Palmis.

I find I can do passion on more than 2 days a year !

too much information perhaps ?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I find I can do passion on more than 2 days a year !

Young Braggart!

[Mr Stoat]

Three points:

1) In RC circles Palm Sunday is officially "Palm Sunday Of The Passion Of The Lord"

2) Certainly in the 18th century in England, Ascension Day was known as "Holy Thursday".

3) Why does any KCC broadcast leads to gratuitous "Kings/Cleobury-Bashing" and counting down to SC's retirement? I sometimes feel that KCC/SC have no hope whwn faced with current prejudices.....

[Cantor]

3) Why does any KCC broadcast leads to gratuitous "Kings/Cleobury-Bashing" and counting down to SC's retirement? I sometimes feel that KCC/SC have no hope whwn faced with current prejudices.....

Personally, I thought the Easter TV broadcast was pretty poor. The basics of tuning, blend, intonation, and even such things as deportment (standing and sitting together) were lacking. Considering KCC is meant to be of the highest standard, they did not reflect this, and have not done so for some time.

Stephen Cleobury has been there for a long time, and perhaps has simply run out of ideas, or true passion for the job. I feel many aspects of his work are uninspired (such as his descants, and his somewhat odd conducting style), and simply do not reach the level of some of his predecessors.

[Gabriel Jackson]

3) Why does any KCC broadcast leads to gratuitous "Kings/Cleobury-Bashing" and counting down to SC's retirement? I sometimes feel that KCC/SC have no hope whwn faced with current prejudices.....

Why indeed?!

[Nick Armstrong]

"called Easter Saturday by the unchurched" , as Leofranc Holford-Strevens tells us severely in the Oxford Book of the Year... )

... Caliban was ever an unchurched ruffian...

[Mr Stoat]

This begs the question as to what is a "normal" conducting style... A random selection of what might be called "different" ways of conducting: Michael Nicholas (formerly at Norwich) Richard Seal (formerly Salisbury - very minimalist) Boris Ord (one finger and eyebrows!) ....... If it works, why not?

[Cantor]

My point is that he moves his arms, and indeed whole body a lot, when the sound from the choir, both in volume and expression, does not reflect the amount he moves.

[Gabriel Jackson]

My point is that he moves his arms, and indeed whole body a lot, when the sound from the choir, both in volume and expression, does not reflect the amount he moves.

So what?! What's the problem? Are you suggesting that the resulting sound is not what he wants? If it is what he wants, why does it matter how it's achieved?

[ardcarp]

IMO provided a conductor gets what he wants, then his 'style' is not important. A good conductor in front of a good choir can sometimes just 'emote' at them and get fabulous results. It gets trickier if an orchestra is involved, because players usually like certain conventions observed (such as where the first beat of the bar falls!) but one sees some conductors (such as Gergiev) who manage to elicit great performances from an apparently random whirling of arms. So it seems as if I am agreeing with GJ. However, Stezzer's body seems to do this awkward bowing movement, even when directing the simplest piece. He reminds me of a figure in a German mechanical clock bashing the bell on the hour. One asks (a) is it strictly necessary given such an expert bunch of singers, and (b) would a much better and more magical performance emerge from the choir if someone with natural charisma and elegance (maybe someone like Harry Christophers?) were put in fronnt of them. KCC is obviously competent in the extreme, but could it be more than that.......?

[Gabriel Jackson]

IMO provided a conductor gets what he wants, then his 'style' is not important. A good conductor in front of a good choir can sometimes just 'emote' at them and get fabulous results. It gets trickier if an orchestra is involved, because players usually like certain conventions observed (such as where the first beat of the bar falls!) but one sees some conductors (such as Gergiev) who manage to elicit great performances from an apparently random whirling of arms. So it seems as if I am agreeing with GJ. However, Stezzer's body seems to do this awkward bowing movement, even when directing the simplest piece. He reminds me of a figure in a German mechanical clock bashing the bell on the hour. One asks (a) is it strictly necessary given such an expert bunch of singers, and (b) would a much better and more magical performance emerge from the choir if someone with natural charisma and elegance (maybe someone like Harry Christophers?) were put in fronnt of them. KCC is obviously competent in the extreme, but could it be more than that.......?

I don't know if any of these critics of Stephen Cleobury's conducting style have actually worked with him, but I have, several times, and in my experience he is perfectly capable of geting exactly what he wants from musicians. What's more, he is one of the most conscientious musicians I know, in terms of respect for and fidelity to the score.