King's Choir on BBC2/BBC HD on Holy Saturday, 17.05

[Gabriel Jackson]

In some ways it is lucky that they are not a cathedral choir because they would have to do everything that they do do PLUS the whole gamut of regular services eg Christmas, but also eg Holy Week / Easter etc.

They do do Holy Week and Easter though...this year the St Matthew Passion, the James MacMillan 7 Last Words
plus Maundy Thursday, Good Friday & Easter Sunday services.

[MrGongGong]

Really? Just because you didn't know what he did after he left Cambridge?



Whatever. You used the word 'unorthodox' though.

I was referring to this

"which means that Stephen Cleobury's background was not "completely orthodox"

I would suggest that teaching in a grammar school, conducting a choral society and being an organist is about as "completely orthodox" as you can get for someone who is a choral director.

[Wolsey]

I would suggest that teaching in a grammar school, conducting a choral society and being an organist is about as "completely orthodox" as you can get for someone who is a choral director.

I suggest you read post 59 again. However one interprets the phrase "completely orthodox", the inference from the comparison made of the two Directors of Music is that one of them has been immersed in a privileged* environment (*for want of a better word) from childhood to the present day. The fact remains that he has not, therefore, the comparison of the two men was not wholly accurate.

[DracoM]

Yes, agreed, this year was particularly heavy.

[french frank]

Cordial conversations on the subject of 'Choirs I have worked with' are here and may be pursued there if wished.

[MrGongGong]

I suggest you read post 59 again. However one interprets the phrase "completely orthodox", the inference from the comparison made of the two Directors of Music is that one of them has been immersed in a privileged* environment (*for want of a better word) from childhood to the present day. The fact remains that he has not, therefore, the comparison of the two men was not wholly accurate.

OOOPS wrong planet then
how is being a head of music at a Grammar school NOT a privileged environment ?

[french frank]

OOOPS wrong planet then
how is being a head of music at a Grammar school NOT a privileged environment ?

The environment may well be a privileged one, but it's still life at the scholastic coal face.

[DracoM]

And in the days under specific discussion a grammar school was a seriously selective option, of course. Surely you would not say 'privileged', but certainly not a 'secondary modern', would you?

Some grammar schools were full of bright kids, but the life in them could be rough all the same. Being a grammar school boy/girl did not in those days mean polite little ladies and gentlemen in any way shape or form!! A teacher in one such would have to fight his corner.

[MrGongGong]

I did go to one myself (bloody awful it was too .......... if i'm allowed to say that ?)

It really is another planet though

Church music that is ................

(which doesn't make it any the less fascinating from a variety of perspectives........)

[Magnificat]

Some grammar schools were full of bright kids, but the life in them could be rough all the same. Being a grammar school boy/girl did not in those days mean polite little ladies and gentlemen in any way shape or form!! A teacher in one such would have to fight his corner.

Draco,

Yes, but at least he would have had some effective weapons at his disposal!!

VCC

[MrGongGong]

Draco,

Yes, but at least he would have had some effective weapons at his disposal!!

VCC

Lets hit them with Stanford in D

[ardcarp]

And in the days under specific discussion a grammar school was a seriously selective option, of course.

In those days? They are still around (despite Gordon Brown having said, "Watch my lips. No selection under a Labour government") and much more seriously selective. The entrance tests (no longer based purely on intelligence, i.e. non-verbal) require a knowledge of maths greater than that taught in primary schools, and verbal reasoning that gives kids from nice middle-class homes a huge advantage. So grammar schools today are not the social melting pot that once gave some kids from less advantaged homes a heave up by the boot-straps. Furthermore most have opted out of local authority control and do their own hiring and firing...particularly of pupils who are going to spoil their league tables.

OK I'll lead my hobby horse back to its stable now......

[Wolsey]

... the inference from the comparison made of the two Directors of Music is that one of them has been immersed in a privileged* environment (*for want of a better word) from childhood to the present day.

My use of the phrase 'privileged environment' has taken this discussion up a blind alley. Stephen Cleobury himself uses the phrase "cloistered existence" in the YouTube interview, so let's substitute that instead, and the point I was making in post 78 still stands.

[MrGongGong]

The entrance tests (no longer based purely on intelligence, i.e. non-verbal).

they never were based on "intelligence"
In many ways I regret "passing" the 11plus ........ had I "failed" i would have been in a class with Daniel Craig
and a far more enlightened music department

[ardcarp]

I think it was the psychologist Eysenck [?] who invented the expression Intelligence Quotient. When asked exactly what I.Q. was, he replied, "It's what my tests measure".