Chance to hear a rare piece

[Gabriel Jackson]

It translates as nothing of the sort, which you may realise if you apply logic to a re-reading of it.

What does it translate as, then? How am I not "independent" in your view?

Of course they can. And whether you know such musicians or not, and/or whether they are "independent" or not, has no relevance to the point I made.

What was the point you made, exactly? I assume the point of your citing "independent" musicians who share your opinion was to claim a near-universality to that view. If it wasn't, why bother?

[french frank]

The more recent posts in this discussion have been moved to a separate thread and may be followed here.

This is to allow the discussion about the Ouseley piece mentioned in the OP to continue.

[W.Kearns]

I remember singing the treble part of Ouseley's 'Is it nothing to you..?' in my parish choir some time in the 1970s, not that my experience will count for anything on this board, since I'm female. But I loved it - Goss's 'O Saviour of the world' too.

[Simon Biazeck]

not that my experience will count for anything on this board, since I'm female.

I'm sorry to hear you have that impression, but I can certainly understand why. I sang all the pieces presented at St Paul's Cathedral, Melbourne as a choral scholar and then lay clerk and not at all since! Like all the professional singers with whom I work, I am no choral misogynist!

[W.Kearns]

Thanks, Simon.

WK.

[ardcarp]

Sometimes the BBCS sops, under certain conductors and doing certain repertory, try to moderate the wobble...not very successfully. But here, doing Stainer, it was as if David Hill had given them licence to sound like a load of superannuated ladies of a certain age who have been staunchly singing the work every year since it was written. I have great respect for David Hill as a musician and salute his work at The Drome and Winchester. My objection to excessive wobble and full-tilt voice-production is that it fogs up the texture, wrecks the sonority of chords, and sometimes even leaves one in doubt as to what notes are actually being sung.

I am not one who pooh-poohs The Crucifixion. It was written by Stainer to suit musical tastes of the late Victorian era and who are we to disparage such an obviously successful work? A local Methodist Church always advertises a 'Come-and-Sing' version. It has become known locally as the 'Do-it-Yourself Crucifixion'. Bring your own nails.

[DracoM]

[Gabriel Jackson]

Sometimes the BBCS sops, under certain conductors and doing certain repertory, try to moderate the wobble...not very successfully. But here, doing Stainer, it was as if David Hill had given them licence to sound like a load of superannuated ladies of a certain age who have been staunchly singing the work every year since it was written. I have great respect for David Hill as a musician and salute his work at The Drome and Winchester. My objection to excessive wobble and full-tilt voice-production is that it fogs up the texture, wrecks the sonority of chords, and sometimes even leaves one in doubt as to what notes are actually being sung.

I am not one who pooh-poohs The Crucifixion. It was written by Stainer to suit musical tastes of the late Victorian era and who are we to disparage such an obviously successful work? A local Methodist Church always advertises a 'Come-and-Sing' version. It has become known locally as the 'Do-it-Yourself Crucifixion'. Bring your own nails.

Leaving aside the stuff about "wobble" (why is it only sopranos that get castigated for this? Oh yes...it's because they aren't boys...) David Hill wasn't conducting this concert, Paul Brough was.

[ardcarp]

GJ Sorry I mis-attributed the conductor. ATB wobble and over-sing too. And you are quite wrong...in my case anyway...to hint at a bias against female singers. I come from a family of 'straight' sopranos; wife, daughters and grand-daughters. Wife in forefront of the 'new' and welcome vogue for straight sopranos in the 1960s and daughters choristers and one choral scholar. So whilst I certainly treasure the legacy of all-male choirs (as surely you must, having been part of one) I do not belong to the 'boys are best' tendency. Neither do I discount the value of a little expression and subtle vibrato in choirs. But the BBCS? OTT, with quiet controlled top notes not an option. I really find them quite uncomfortable to listen to these days. Compare them with other European radio choirs?

[DracoM]

That 'boys' sneer is unworthy of you, GJ.

[paul duggan2]

That 'boys' sneer is unworthy of you, GJ.

It's clearly touched a nerve though

[Simon]

That 'boys' sneer is unworthy of you, GJ.

Rather typical of him, I thought.

[Simon]

I'm sorry to hear you have that impression, but I can certainly understand why.

Really? Do tell how, then. I've had a quick look around over the past year's posts, and apart from a couple of instances of people saying quite openly and honestly that they prefer boys & men for certain repertoire (their choice, surely) and another couple of comments about disliking "wobbly" soprano voices (again their choice, surely) I can't find anything that would lead to this conclusion.

Like all the professional singers with whom I work, I am no choral misogynist!

This is wonderful to hear! Though I no longer work with professional musicians, I too, like the amateur musicians with whom I occasionally manage to sing or play am, similarly, not a choral misogynist.

[Simon]

It's clearly touched a nerve though

But nothing like as sensitive a nerve as even the slightest criticism of the BBC Singers!

[Gabriel Jackson]

But nothing like as sensitive a nerve as even the slightest criticism of the BBC Singers!

It's not slight though, is it? If anyone I respect and admire is criticised, to my mind unfairly, I defend them. Is that so odd?