Festival of Nine lessons and Carols 24th / 25th Dec 2010

[Simon]

Don't worry about Draco, Ms Tweedy (!) - nice name change - though clearly a nice fellow in general, he can be picky about what he thinks we can/can't say about choirs on here - but I expect most of us knew what you meant. I knew ypu didn't claim the anaemic comment as yours - I too have heard it from oher lips, though not those for whom I have the greatest respect, it must be said.

As for changing styles, I expect you're right about the adult pro choirs - but surely most do it at least to a certain extent. I mean, you aren't going to blast out Monteverdi the same way you'd go at Matthias, are you?

[cheryltweedy]

As for changing styles, I expect you're right about the adult pro choirs - but surely most do it at least to a certain extent. I mean, you aren't going to blast out Monteverdi the same way you'd go at Matthias, are you?

Simon, my thoughts exactly,
I guess with cathedral/chapel choirs the balance has to be struck between being a jack-of-all-trades and master of none type of choir, or whether you confine yourself to a particular reportoire and master the genre.

Professional choirs in this regards have several advantages - they don't have to sing everyday, they can call upon professionals who can change their voices on request and who generally have a greater sense of musicality than young boys/girls due to their age. I feel with KCC that they never really 'got' romantic music under DW and inversely now their sound does not sit well with simpler, cleaner music. I have yet to come across a cathedral choir that convinces me across the whole spectrum of music. SJC Naxos CD's made under C.Robinson of 20th century composers is stunning and yet their performances last month of older music (the Byrd comes to mind) was excruciating - as VCC hinted at. Winchester Cath is perhaps the one place that comes to mind which has the versitility.

A last thought - perhaps the prevalence of 'big singing' style of the Oxbridge/London choirs has more to do with the reportoire they chose to do on CE, rather than what they actually sound like day-to-day. Many of these foundations seem to engage in CE's that are glorified concerts which encourage the operatic style that seems so in vogue. I find that choirs such as Wells and St Albans amongst others perform music that is more typical than atypical when doing CE and hence produce the 'english' sound you refer to Simon and which I prefer.

CT

[Simon]

Some of you may be interested in this Stanford, from Holland.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-94xZX22ayw

Where does this treble sound lie in the context of the sounds we hear/have heard in English (and German) foundations, do you think?

I think major credit is due to Breda for such a good job in a non-native language.

(One of the lads is tired out, isn't he - look at the yawn towards the end! - no wonder his breathing is all over the place! Bless!)

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

And just in case you missed it on the other boards, here's Stanford in Bb at a cracking, not to say startling, pace - with orchestra instead of organ, from (an extended) Winchester. And a good job was done by all, indeed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsbWHMfQXzE

[DracoM]

It's closer to the NCO than St J's sound, isn't it? And miles away from the occasionally rather timid KCC's current offering. Forthright, big tone. They've featured on YouTube quite a lot. Seemed quite a small outfit as well.

[Magnificat]

Simon, my thoughts exactly,
I guess with cathedral/chapel choirs the balance has to be struck between being a jack-of-all-trades and master of none type of choir, or whether you confine yourself to a particular reportoire and master the genre.

Professional choirs in this regards have several advantages - they don't have to sing everyday, they can call upon professionals who can change their voices on request and who generally have a greater sense of musicality than young boys/girls due to their age. I feel with KCC that they never really 'got' romantic music under DW and inversely now their sound does not sit well with simpler, cleaner music. I have yet to come across a cathedral choir that convinces me across the whole spectrum of music. SJC Naxos CD's made under C.Robinson of 20th century composers is stunning and yet their performances last month of older music (the Byrd comes to mind) was excruciating - as VCC hinted at. Winchester Cath is perhaps the one place that comes to mind which has the versitility.

A last thought - perhaps the prevalence of 'big singing' style of the Oxbridge/London choirs has more to do with the reportoire they chose to do on CE, rather than what they actually sound like day-to-day. Many of these foundations seem to engage in CE's that are glorified concerts which encourage the operatic style that seems so in vogue. I find that choirs such as Wells and St Albans amongst others perform music that is more typical than atypical when doing CE and hence produce the 'english' sound you refer to Simon and which I prefer.

CT

CT

I think actually it is rather unfair to criticise the choral scholars of Oxbridge too much. They have always been the weak point of such choirs. Obviously because their voices are immature, they are comparatively inexperienced, they change every three years and these days the DoMs have to contend with the additional burden of their needing to be very good academically irrespective of the strength of their voices which means that some of the best voices probably won't get to sing in KIng's or St John's or even the other college choirs.

As regards the King's boys. I remember last year listening to Philip Ledger on the radio describing why the Chapel acoustic governs so much the sound that the choir has to make. They could not sing like NCO or Westminster Cathedral or other fuller sounding choirs because the chapel would show up every mistake and magnify it.

I don't think SC can change the sound too much in fact. As a result the choir does not travel too well. I heard them sing at the St Albans IOF Three Choirs in July 2009 and they sounded very weak and made no impression in that building whereas Westminster Abbey with their much fuller sound did . Their sound then was very much like the weak sound produced in this week's recording from earlier this year. However in the Nine Lessons and Carols I thought the boys sounded much better. Probably due to age related changes in their voices more than anything.

I have been listening again to some old recordings under DW and I do think his sound with King's stands the test of time.

VCC