Brahms Choral works

[teamsaint]

i am something of a novice in this area. However, I have a considerable number of Cds of Lieder and other choral works, that I am working through in chaotic fashion, and enjoying greatly.(some are by the Chamber Choir of Europe).

First question, any short cuts to things that any of you especially like?

Also, any ideas on where to go for English translations, other than here ?

http://www.recmusic.org/lieder/get_text.html?TextId=26576

All hints tips etc greatfully received !!

Thanks

TS

[teamsaint]

Thought I would just bump this, as I am back working my through some of these works again.(Long winter months approaching, and unlistened to CD's are a free resource).
Not an overwhelmingly popular subject apparently !!

That website is worth a look though, surely !!

Edit: You just have to love some of the lyrics. The days of these kind of lyrics are sadly behind us......

here is a little taste from Op31
Neckereien

Language: German

Fürwahr, mein Liebchen, ich will nun frein,
Ich führ' als Weibchen dich be mir ein,
Mein wirst du, o Liebchen, fürwahr du wirst mein,
Und wolltest du's auch nicht sein.

"So werd' ich ein Täubchen von weißer Gestalt,
Ich will schon entfliehen, ich flieg' in den Wald,
Mag dennoch nicht deine, mag dennoch nicht dein,
Nicht eine Stunde sein."

Ich hab' wohl ein Flintchen, das trifft gar bald,
Ich schieß' mir das Täubchen herunter im Wald;
Mein wirst du, o Liebchen, fürwahr du wirst mein,
Und wolltest du's auch nicht sein.

"So werd' ich ein Fischchen, ein goldener Fisch,
Ich will schon entspringen ins Wasser frisch;
Mag dennoch nicht deine, mag dennoch nicht dein,
Nicht eine Stunde sein."

Ich hab' wohl ein Netzchen, das fischt gar gut,
Ich fang' mir den goldenem Fisch in der Flut;
Mein wirst du, o Liebchen, fürwahr du wirst mein,
Und wolltest du's auch nicht sein.

"So werd' ich ein Häschen voll Schnelligkeit,
Und lauf' in die Felder, die Felder breit,
Mag dennoch nicht deine, mag dennoch nicht dein,
Nicht eine Stunde sein."

Ich hab' wohl ein Hüdchen, gar pfiffig und fein,
Das fängt mir das Häschen im Felde schon ein:
Mein wirst du, o Liebchen, fürwahr du wirst mein,
Und wolltest du's auch nicht sein.


Translation(s): ENG
Authorship

by Josef Wenzig (1807-1876) , "Mein wirst du o Liebchen", from Slawische Volkslieder, in 1. Böhmische Volkslieder, published 1830
Based on
a text in Moravian by Anonymous/Unidentified Artist , title unknown [text unavailable]
Musical settings (art songs, Lieder, mélodies, (etc.), choral pieces, and other vocal works set to this text), listed by composer (not necessarily exhaustive)

by Johannes Brahms (1833-1897) , "Neckereien", op. 31 (Drei Quartette) no. 2 (1863). [SATB quartet and piano]
Available translations, adaptations, and transliterations (if applicable):
ENG English (Emily Ezust) , "Teasing", copyright ©
Text added to the website between May 1995 and September 2003.
Notes about green, red, and white dots

Gentle Reminder
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- Emily

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Teasing

Language: English

It's true, my dear, I am now courting,
and I will establish you as my wife;
you will be mine, my dear, truly mine,
and even if you don't also want it.

"Then I'll become a dove with a white form -
I will fly from you, fly into the wood,
and so I may not be yours, may not be yours:
that hour will never come."

I have a flintlock that can fire quickly -
I'll shoot the dove down in the wood;
You will be mine, my dear, truly mine,
and even if you don't also want it.

"Then I'll become a little fish, a golden fish -
I'll spring into the fresh water;
and so I may not be yours, may not be yours:
that hour will never come."

I have however a net that fishes very well;
I will catch me this golden fish in the water.
You will be mine, my dear, truly mine,
and even if you don't also want it.

"Then I'll become a hare, full of swiftness -
and run in the fields, the broad fields.
and so I may not be yours, may not be yours:
that hour will never come."

I have however a hound that's smart and fine;
he'll catch me that hare in the fields.
You will be mine, my dear, truly mine,
and even if you don't also want it.

They don't make them like that any more !

Second Edit. Sorry to bang on, but I am listening to the op31 and 0p 64 sets performed by The Chamber Choir of Europe and they are stunning.

And here are the op 64 set on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W664u7Ib8NI

[ardcarp]

"Lieder are best enjoyed in their original language..especially if you don't understand it." I forget who said that.

But seriously, the two war-horses that most people know are the Gerrman Requiem and the Liebeslieder Waltzes. The former has been done quite a lot recently in the piano duet version, so a sacred/secular concert of the two pieces makes a good evening's programme.

[Tony Halstead]

Not so well-known ( although they deserve to be) are the Op.17 Four Songs for Female Chorus, 2 horns and harp.
Absolutely beautiful.
Many years ago I had the pleasure of recording these really lovely songs with a superb chorus.
We horn players used original 19th - century Viennese single F horns to add a touch of 'authenticity'.
( see http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...ghthouse-Poole message #33, last paragraph, apologies to all who are not horn enthusiasts / 'anoraks'!)

PS On reflection, considering the date of those songs ( 1860) we should really have played 'original North German' horns, since there is no record of Brahms being in Vienna before 1862!

[ardcarp]

A bit off-topic, Waldhorn, but on what would you play Schubert's Auf dem Strom?

[Tony Halstead]

Probably an early ( 1820s) horn with 2 valves, crooked in E, the 1st valve lowering the harmonics by a whole tone and the 2nd valve by a semitone.
Although I would be using the old 'hand-horn' technique, not operating the valves at all for most of the song ( certainly the opening 16 or so bars) the valves would come into play for those crucial low step-wise passages where the written A and F below middle C are almost unattainable via hand-technique. at a decibel level that would be audible over the voice and the piano.
If dear reader hasn't nodded off by now, I should mention that Schubert was the very first major composer to write horn music that could be played only on a valve horn; another striking example being the 3rd and 4th horn parts of 'Nachtgesang im Walde' for male chorus and horn quartet.

[teamsaint]

Not so well-known ( although they deserve to be) are the Op.17 Four Songs for Female Chorus, 2 horns and harp.
Absolutely beautiful.
Many years ago I had the pleasure of recording these really lovely songs with a superb chorus.
We horn players used original 19th - century Viennese single F horns to add a touch of 'authenticity'.
( see http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...ghthouse-Poole message #33, last paragraph, apologies to all who are not horn enthusiasts / 'anoraks'!)

PS On reflection, considering the date of those songs ( 1860) we should really have played 'original North German' horns, since there is no record of Brahms being in Vienna before 1862!

Schooboy error..Waldy......

I have a version of those tunes in my box. Chamber choir of Europe, horns were Sebastian Schindler, Sebastian Schorr. No other info really.
Will spin these tonight.
Good heads up, ta.
(they are on the last of 8 CD's I am working through....seems to be winter work !!)

edit: The Op17 are indeed lovely. There is much music here that deserves a much more regular hearing. I shall pop them on the "Breakfast recommendations " thread.

[ardcarp]

Probably an early ( 1820s) horn with 2 valves, crooked in E, the 1st valve lowering the harmonics by a whole tone and the 2nd valve by a semitone.
Although I would be using the old 'hand-horn' technique, not operating the valves at all for most of the song ( certainly the opening 16 or so bars) the valves would come into play for those crucial low step-wise passages where the written A and F below middle C are almost unattainable via hand-technique. at a decibel level that would be audible over the voice and the piano.
If dear reader hasn't nodded off by now, I should mention that Schubert was the very first major composer to write horn music that could be played only on a valve horn; another striking example being the 3rd and 4th horn parts of 'Nachtgesang im Walde' for male chorus and horn quartet.

Thanks Waldhorn. I most certainly did not nod off. Fascinating. I performed the piece several times as a tenor (tho' I wasn't mainly a lieder singer). I can remember one occasion way in the past (1970s probably) when Tim Reynish used something earlier than a standard F orchestral horn. I think it was crooked in E, but had three 'piston style' valves...not the modern rotary sort...and resembled faintly the sort of thing we still had kicking around at school, and available for those couldn't afford their own instrument. Any of those still around today, and when did the rotary valve supersede the pistons?

[teamsaint]

just bumped this to say, (and I know I have gone on about these before)

http://www.selections.com/brahms-choral-works-6cds.html

Around £9 inc post.
a bargain.

[JFLL]

One I especially like is the choral Begräbnisgesang (‘Funeral song’), op. 13, especially in Gardiner’s performance with the Monteverdi Choir. They’ve also recorded several other Brahms choral pieces such as the Schicksalslied (‘Song of Fate’), well worth exploring, especially if you like the German Requiem..

[gurnemanz]

just bumped this to say, (and I know I have gone on about these before)

http://www.selections.com/brahms-choral-works-6cds.html

Around £9 inc post.
a bargain.

Tempting but I'm trying to restrain myself at the moment. I have these two which I can recommend:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brahms-Lieder-Gesange-Zigeunerlieder-Kammerchor/dp/B0031B7ERW/ref=sr_1_9?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1360060868&sr=1-9

http://www.mdt.co.uk/brahms-motets-corydon-singers-matthew-best-john-scott-helios.html

I already had quite a lot of Brahms Lieder but last year couldn't resist the Brilliant Classics complete edition which is a snip and well worth getting. I also bought Fischer-Dieskau's book.

[jayne lee wilson]

One I especially like is the choral Begräbnisgesang (‘Funeral song’), op. 13, especially in Gardiner’s performance with the Monteverdi Choir. They’ve also recorded several other Brahms choral pieces such as the Schicksalslied (‘Song of Fate’), well worth exploring, especially if you like the German Requiem..

Seconded!! Gardiner's recent recordings of Brahms' choral works are at the top of the tree!

[teamsaint]

Tempting but I'm trying to restrain myself at the moment. I have these two which I can recommend:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brahms-Lieder-Gesange-Zigeunerlieder-Kammerchor/dp/B0031B7ERW/ref=sr_1_9?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1360060868&sr=1-9

http://www.mdt.co.uk/brahms-motets-corydon-singers-matthew-best-john-scott-helios.html

I already had quite a lot of Brahms Lieder but last year couldn't resist the Brilliant Classics complete edition which is a snip and well worth getting. I also bought Fischer-Dieskau's book.

Your self restraint is admirable, Gurney.
some of these are available to listen to on youtube. I do recommend a listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dl5mqe41dM