CE Manchester Cathedral 8th Feb 2012

[jean]

...the Gabrieli which just rambled on...

The one thing that didn't work as far as I was concerned - tempi all wrong, no excitement.

And either it has some very low treble parts, or there were boys/girls singing alto - not usual in cathedrals? (though I think they used to do it in Westminster Cathedral many years ago).

[DracoM]

Agree about Gabrieli tempi on second hearing. Might have been more spritely?

The Bingham introit grew on me. Apart from the soaring treble solo at the end, not all that difficult to sing. Plenty of atmosphere. Yes, welcome to that, Ms Bingham.

[subcontrabass]

The one thing that didn't work as far as I was concerned - tempi all wrong, no excitement.

And either it has some very low treble parts, or there were boys/girls singing alto - not usual in cathedrals? (though I think they used to do it in Westminster Cathedral many years ago).

This work is for seven voices, and the second treble part is quite low-lying and weaves around the alto part (score at http://www1.cpdl.org/wiki/images/b/b6/Agab-iudia7.pdf).

[Wolsey]

... And either it has some very low treble parts, or there were boys/girls singing alto - not usual in cathedrals? (though I think they used to do it in Westminster Cathedral many years ago).

And also at Coventry.

[Simon]

Well, indeed, that was a refreshing CE - very varied and enjoyable across the board. Mostly new to me too, though I've come across the Mag before, and of course Britten's Jolly Jubilate must be one of his best pieces. Ms. Bingham seems, as do so many of her ilk, to be frightened of writing a concord, but the introit for me had enough hooks to be worth hearing and I was a bit surprised to realise that I quite enjoyed it.

I thought they did a tremendous job overall, and that despite some iffy sound engineering. There's some Manc youtube stuff available, IIRC it's Stanford largely, which is worth checking out. My main reservation would be with the anthem, which, like some others seem to believe, I think they could have made more of as regards fluidity and dynamics.

Re the Eben - every time I hear it I wonder why he didn't make more of the ending - a nice hearty tonic bump or two to round it off!

Thanks to all at Manc.

bws S-S!

[Lizzie]

Well, indeed, that was a refreshing CE - very varied and enjoyable across the board. Mostly new to me too, though I've come across the Mag before, and of course Britten's Jolly Jubilate must be one of his best pieces. Ms. Bingham seems, as do so many of her ilk, to be frightened of writing a concord, but the introit for me had enough hooks to be worth hearing and I was a bit surprised to realise that I quite enjoyed it.

I thought they did a tremendous job overall, and that despite some iffy sound engineering. There's some Manc youtube stuff available, IIRC it's Stanford largely, which is worth checking out. My main reservation would be with the anthem, which, like some others seem to believe, I think they could have made more of as regards fluidity and dynamics.

Re the Eben - every time I hear it I wonder why he didn't make more of the ending - a nice hearty tonic bump or two to round it off!

Thanks to all at Manc.

bws S-S!

Right with you on the Eben Simon! Still love the piece, although I find the Finale even more exciting and enjoyable! Hardly ever seem to hear it played though..... Go on someone, somewhere, and make my day! All bws. Liz

[mopsus]

It was definitely one of the livelier settings of the Nunc that I've heard. But I too found the Gabrieli lacking in variety, although I suspect there's a limit to how interesting you can make it.

[gainasbass]

I was in the congregation for this service, which was held in the Quire, and where the choir occupied their usual stalls. The choir's standard was most impressive, especially when considering that the front rows were only occupied by nine trebles supporting the nine lay clerks: Decani - 4 trebles, Head Chorister (girl) plus 2 girls and a very young boy, with 4 lay clerks (1 tenor, 2 countertenors and 1 bass); Cantoris - 5 trebles (3 girls and 2 boys as I recall) with 5 lay clerks (2 tenors, but I couldn't see whether there were 2 countertenors or 2 basses - it was the latter, I think. In one of the larger (Gothic) cathedrals such a small body of trebles would have been swamped by the organ and men of the choir, but given the intimacy of the aoustic, and the fact that the trebles are all pupils at the neighbouring Cheethams School of Music, each one's musicality shone through and was a bonus. The Head Chorister oozed musicality and possessed a pleasiantly strong voice, and was superb in the solos with which she was presented.

After 'listening again' there were, quite obviously, some instances of sound compression in the broadcast transmission, a fact regularly commented upon in these boards when discussing broadcasts from other foundations, but it has to be acknowledged that the Beeb's engineers have a difficult job to do, and as one privileged to have been at the service I felt that there was not IMO a great deal "lost in transmission". I was particularly moved by the Judith Bingham introit (and pleased to have been present at its first performance/broadcast premiere), and by the psalm(s) sung to Camidge's well known chant with CS's excellent arrangement for the two verses of the three refrains thereto, although all of the music was interesting, well sung, and appropriate to the mood of the service. JM's organ accompaniments and his interpretation of the Eben voluntary were outstanding.

The service was well ordered and the two lessons were read with feeling by the two lay people. I agree that the precentor's commentary at various points during the service was unusual, but I am guessing that they are not a usual feature of evensongs at Manchester, but were prepared with the wider broadcast audience in mind, and to this end one has to admit that they must have been a success.

At the end of the broadcast the Dean invited the congregation to make its way into the nave where a presentation was to be made. Thus we were able to witness the presentation by a local benefactor to the Cathedral of a set of copies of the "Choirbook for the Queen" which comprises 44 anthems including 11 commissions of which Judith Bingham's Corpus Christi Carol (the introit at this service) is one. In thanking the benefactor, the Dean referred to JB's presence on this occasion, enabling her to be made known to those present, and to acknowledge the appreciation of her composition.

A fitting conclusion to a memorable occasion. Well done Manchester Cathedral!

NOTE: If you visit the Choirbook for the Queen website, where information on the Choirbook's contents is available, JB features in a video interview re her commission.

[Lizzie]

Thanks for that gainasbass. Always interesting to hear from someone who was there, how it really sounded. I thought the Bingham piece was wonderful and hope we hear it at Winchester at some point.

We were lucky to hear a new Paul Mealor piece at Winch a couple of Sundays ago, with words by Bp Geoffrey Rowell. Does the heart good to know that there is such meditative and yet exciting contemporary sacred music out there which fits so well into our cathedrals. Love it and am very grateful to hear it. Thank you to all those composers who put their hearts and souls into such fine music.

[Magnificat]

. In one of the larger (Gothic) cathedrals such a small body of trebles would have been swamped by the organ and men of the choir

Not necessarily: At St Albans ( Norman), for example, where Saturday evensong is sung by the senior boys and half the men (6) I have regularly heard the service sung by as few as nine boys and they have no trouble at all in filling the place with sound. It depends on the capability of the boys and how they are trained.

In view of the small mixed voice treble forces at Manchester for this service they did better than I thought when listening to the broadcast but I still think they tried to do too much and it showed in places. Far better to do less but to do it all really well. As you say they have some very good individual voices.

VCC.

[Simon]

Well, to be fair, that dark and narrow quire of yours would hardly be difficult to fill with sound, and nine experienced boys should manage it well enough. Though I'm surprised you get so low in numbers - we rarely had fewer than 14 and it was usually 16 - I can't ever recall less than 12.

I love your cathedral, your town and certainly the new organ, VCC - but I've always thought the quire to be a bit overpoweringly looming. Dec and Can only inches apart too! I don't think I would have liked to sing in it, though I was once told that the acoustic doesn't feel as dry as one might expect.

[Magnificat]

Well, to be fair, that dark and narrow quire of yours would hardly be difficult to fill with sound, and nine experienced boys should manage it well enough. Though I'm surprised you get so low in numbers - we rarely had fewer than 14 and it was usually 16 - I can't ever recall less than 12.

I love your cathedral, your town and certainly the new organ, VCC - but I've always thought the quire to be a bit overpoweringly looming. Dec and Can only inches apart too! I don't think I would have liked to sing in it, though I was once told that the acoustic doesn't feel as dry as one might expect.

Simon

The acoustic in the Quire, Crossing and Presbytery area is lovely. Not perfect so the choir has to work at their sound but with all the wood in the stalls and its small area the Quire is like a sounding box and resonates the singing outwards to the larger Crossing and Presbytery area where it is best to sit to hear a balanced sound. The acoustic is certainly not dry. Harry Christophers of the Sixteen reckons that the Abbey acoustic is pretty much constant wherever you are in the building. Personally I think you hear the best sound standing by the notice board in the south transept!!

The number of experienced boys singing evensong in the Quire with a reduced number of men on Saturdays depends on the choir demographics at any one time. Currently 16 boys sing on Saturdays; but the Quire is very suited to smaller numbers. I remember Barry Rose doing a weekday evensong with seven choristers and a probationer due to illness. He stood in front of them going through the boys who weren't there ( the choristers were about 20 odd in number at the time ) saying he's out, he's out, he's out etc and finally " shouldn't make any difference " and it didn't - first rate sound filling the Quire area easily.

The current full choir always sings Sunday evensong in the Nave except for the half terms before and after Christmas when it sings in the Quire ( saves a bit on heating during the Winter months I believe! ). The boys are taught to sing in the Nave. BR always used to say that he taught them to bounce their sound off the walls.

I agree with you about the organ it sounds tremendous after the recent refurbishment and Tom Winpenny is a rising star in the organ world in my opinion - his playing is sheer class.

VCC

[Vile Consort]

Simon

I agree with you about the organ it sounds tremendous after the recent refurbishment and Tom Winpenny is a rising star in the organ world in my opinion - his playing is sheer class.

VCC

It was considerably more than mere refurbishment - quite a lot of new pipework went into it!

Totally agree about TW's playing. I think it was the Festival before last where he chose to play one of the pieces (a Mendelssohn sonata) set in the semi-final round of the competition, and one of the judges had also programmed it in his recital. Guess who produced the best performance!