A SERVICE FOR ADVENT WITH CAROLS 27th Nov 2011

[ardcarp]

I loathed the Nield, and clichés like "cultural vandalism" floated around in my head.

decantor

The idea was surely filched from that thing with saxophone which The Hilliards did a while ago? I must admit that I didn't rave about that (like some did) and wasn't over-keen on this one either. But I guess some people probably liked it.

I know what you mean about the congregational singing too....but we are eavesdropping on a service; and I dare say a lot of the college worthies relished their chance to join in. (Did I detect some hearty attempts at a tenor line from the congregation?)

The sort of extremely full-blooded hymn-singing that used to happen in public school chapels (does it still?) could be quite stirring in a strange sort of way.

[decantor]

The idea was surely filched from that thing with saxophone which The Hilliards did a while ago?

I know what you mean about the congregational singing too....but we are eavesdropping on a service; and I dare say a lot of the college worthies relished their chance to join in.

The sort of extremely full-blooded hymn-singing that used to happen in public school chapels (does it still?) could be quite stirring in a strange sort of way.

ardcarp, I'm sure you're right: Jan Garbarek, Patrick Hawes, & the Hilliards. I found that an interesting experiment, and it had a bit of atmosphere. But it wasn't opening up an Advent Service!

Oh yes, I know people like a good shout. I don't, but I guess it's all part of the tradition. As for the public school chapels...... well, I'm too long out of the business to know. But I never enjoyed it much myself, I'm afraid, and it's worse in a prep school with all those piping voices!

[Alison]

I hear the contrast between full congregation and choir in a positive way. It's still pretty good
congregational singing by any normal standard!

This service came up fresh for me and I missed 'Wachet Auf' when it went missing for a few years.

[DracoM]

Actually, I thought the balance this year was rather better than in some others.
What might be fascinating will be St J's OWN webcast version of this same service.

LA-d again and still think the Swayne and Harvey were the two most outstanding pieces. Yes the Neild was a bit Garbarek - prefer the Sandstrom that KCC did the other year - and same trick might have worked in a bigger acoustic but not in St J's rather boxy space, and esp not with 400+ inside! Totally agree with ardcarp a bout AN's own style beginning to come through more now.

[Magnificat]

[QUOTE

We thought it was a beautifully balanced choice of music, extremely well-rehearsed and executed, and in short, the best St John's Advent thingy for a long time. Like Draco, I thought the Swayne and Harvey were fine pieces. Andrew N. had (it seemsd to us) a clear vision of how he wanted stuff to go, and even if one didn't always agree (e.g. Stanford Mag a bit of a romp IOHO) he brought it off really well. There was some lovely controlled singing....all the more creditable for having been done in a packed chapel and under a big metaphorical spotlight.

Particularly interesting was The Cherry Tree Carol...same version as on the old Guest LP, but sounding very different. In many ways it proves that AN has put his stamp on the choir.

ardcarp

I have only just been able to listen to a recording I made and tend to agree with you except for the arrangement of Praetorius. Why can't they leave that wonderful tune alone? Saxophones on Advent Sunday - not for me. The Sandstrom arrangement with all the humming is just as bad!

Perhaps the boys tired a bit towards the end but the service is a big sing for any choir.

I always enjoy hearing the choristers of St John's and King's reading their lessons. They do it so well every year and they can be real tongue twisters. Apropos our recent thoughts on bridging the gap between the classes and cathedral/college choirs. Perhaps we will know that this has happened when we get cockney accents during the boys' readings!! I suppose, though, they will all end up speaking in the same middle class tones. Michael Bentine always used to say this about Eton - no matter what the background of the boys they all ended up with the same accent!

Interesting to read your wife's views about women in the Church. It is usually women who are the fiercest critics of the feminists. Being a cowardly man I dare not say any more!!

VCC

[bach736]

As one who'd rather travel hopefully than arrive, I'd take Palm Sunday over Easter and Advent over Christmas - so I always look forward to the St John's 'benchmark' service and this has without doubt been the best in recent years, I think, because it felt like an act of worship rather than just another carol concert.

One can take issue with the individual items - I groaned at the intrusion of a Stanford Mag - but they did it rather well and even the Nield, if I had been there, would have seemed a brave and atmospheric attempt to set the scene - less so on radio. Overall there was a freshness and a new style - St John's is again reinventing itself.

I loved the Swayne and the Harvey and the free flowing Mendelssohn but the hymns, rather than being the pillars of the service were awkward and muddy - not because of the singing but the organ registration. With the reeds and seemingly all the subs on, the organ sounded (as a well respected organ builder said to me today), like a very large harmonium.

George Guest was very fond of Martin How's RSCM book harmonisation of 'Lo, He comes' and used it for several years. He gave me a copy, which I treasure. Philip Moore's marvellous 'Sketches on Helmsley' would have been an interesting replacement for 'Wachet Auf'.

For myself, I prefer to end with the 661 'Nun komm der Heiden Heiland' - a glorious hymn tune, almost totally ignored by Anglican Britain but which defines the Advent season for most of Protestant Europe.

Listening again to the concluding voluntary, I don't think it was a case of the Challenger challenged - rather an acoustic problem. The muddy St J's bourdons are situated to the East, away from the four western based manuals. The apparent lack of manual / pedal synchronisation could well have been an acoustic or mic problem. I recall a recording engineer once trying to mic the KCC organ through the western dummy pipes and back of the swell box. It can happen!

Can't wait for next year.

[ardcarp]

VCC Glad you enjoyed the service too. If you look at #31 you'll see that our views on the saxophone obbligato are the same. I've nothing against saxophones in general, and they can be used in unusual circumstances. As students we did Monteverdi's Vespers...when to do such a piece was a pioneering job. We could only find one cornettist, Don Smithers, who suggested that an alto sax might blend with him. It did and was incredibly convincing.

[Triforium]

The choir is definitely in fine form. I particularly enjoyed the Swayne and Harvey. Thought the Mendelssohn was simply too fast. Also thought the Eccard was too brisk at the outset given the vibrancy of the sound - but settled in nicely as it went along. Stanford in B flat was, well, Stanford in B flat. Liked the Gardner very much, it’s a favourite of mine. Well done everyone, many thanks to all for a wonderful service.

I prefer lawnmowers to saxophones. There are however, some differences. Lawnmowers sound better in small ensembles. Also, people generally want their lawnmowers returned after lending them.

[ardcarp]

I prefer lawnmowers to saxophones. There are however, some differences. Lawnmowers sound better in small ensembles. Also, people generally want their lawnmowers returned after lending them.

Malcolm Arnold immediately springs to mind.

Correcetion to post #37. It was a soprano sax...the straight one.... we used in The Vespers.

[DracoM]

< I prefer lawnmowers to saxophones. There are however, some differences. Lawnmowers sound better in small ensembles. Also, people generally want their lawnmowers returned after lending them. >

Reminds me of Hoffnung.

[AscribeUntoTheLad]

[QUOTE

Interesting to read your wife's views about women in the Church. It is usually women who are the fiercest critics of the feminists. Being a cowardly man I dare not say any more!!

VCC

"The feminists"? It's not a special club you know...

[Mr Stoat]

.....the hymns, rather than being the pillars of the service were awkward and muddy - not because of the singing but the organ registration. With the reeds and seemingly all the subs on, the organ sounded (as a well respected organ builder said to me today), like a very large harmonium.

Interesting how perceptions vary. I detected the Swell Super but not Sub - but that may be just me! I thought the hymns stayed together and flowed well despite the big congregation. I was always taught that it is better to "overplay" than "underplay" - especially at the start of a hymn............. I wish various harmoniums I have played sounded like that!!

[bach736]

Well, I think you may be right, Mr Stoat. We were listening to a pretty good quality recording of the FM off air signal but I have to say that, having now heard it on LA, the organ has a very different sound. A lesson learnt.

[ardcarp]

As I am a well-and-truly lapsed organ nerd, perhaps a fully paid-up current practitioner could (at risk of boring 90% of the readership) tell us a little about the organ at St John's? I thought it was a Hill and I thought it had been converted to mechanical action. In which case has it got sub-octave couplers? If so, very heavy for 'tracker' and not very fashionable...IOW a well designed organ shouldn't need such things.

I don't think it is really fair to judge the accompaniment of hymnody by a live broadcast in a packed chapel with hearty audience participation. The guys (or gals) at the chalk face have to use any tricks at their disposal to keep the show on the rails.

[Caussade]

http://npor.rcm.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=D01634