Girl Choristers on Woman's Hour

[jean]

Not so - which is nominative, though its antecedent them is not, of course.

Here's an example where both antecedent and relative are in the nominative:

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake...

But my main point is to draw attention to the inappropriateness of carping at Olivia for being rude to choristers when Olivia is a chorister.

That's a great way to encourage new young posters to this forum, don't you think?

[Miles Coverdale]

You are right, which is nominative. It was late. However, in the KJV text you quoted 'which' correctly follows a pronoun, but in the sentence being referred to it didn't, and therefore wasn't.

Grammar pedantry aside, I didn't think Olivia was being rude, nor would I have described her use of language as impolite. As to the encouragement or otherwise of young posters, I will only observe that the young don't always need encouragement.

[french frank]

(Choristers at both Liverpool cathedrals don't go to fee-paying schools, either.)

Does that mean that some of them - but not all of them - do (or don't)? Or that none of them do?

Choristers at Bristol Cathedral attend Bristol Cathedral Choir School which is a non-fee-paying state academy with music as one of its primary specialisms.

[ardcarp]

If I were Olivia I might think I had stumbled into the topsy-turvy world of Rev Charles Dodgson's imagination. I like your forthright posts, Olivia.

[oliviahunt]

I dont quite understand how that is seen as impolite just merly stating what goes on at Chester , and I have just finished as head chorister there amd after 10 years oh being a chorister there. I was just stating that not all the choristers go to fee paying schools , im sorry if this offends anyone !

[DracoM]

It doesn't!! Really don't worry about it. You very kindly told us factual info, and how other people interpret it is not your problem. Don't lose any sleep over it, FGS!

[Gabriel Jackson]

It doesn't!! Really don't worry about it. You very kindly told us factual info, and how other people interpret it is not your problem. Don't lose any sleep over it, FGS!

Quite!

[BasilHarwood]

... Southwell and Peterborough, too.

[jean]

However, in the KJV text you quoted 'which' correctly follows a pronoun, but in the sentence being referred to it didn't, and therefore wasn't.

Where did that rule come from?

Someone forgot to tell Tyndale!

1526 Bible (Tyndale) 1 Cor. xv. 57 Thankes be vnto God, whych hath geven vs victory.

1548–9 Bk. Common Prayer Matins, O God, which art author of peace, and louer of concorde...

and even more obviously

Our Father, which art in Heaven...

Anyway, I'm glad Olivia brushes aside the original silly pedantry that was less concerned with what she said than how she said it. Good for you, Olivia.

.

[jean]

Does that mean that some of them - but not all of them - do (or don't) [go to fee-paying schools]? Or that none of them do?

The latter, I thought - I knew that many years ago the Liverpool Cathedral boys used to attend the Liverpool Institute, which was conveniently just round the corner.

But there are no more city centre grammar schools, and it appears that now

The choristers attend schools all over the city and are free to attend any secondary school of their choice.

which would allow them to attend a fee-paying school if they wanted to, but not under the auspices of the cathedral. It all sounds very difficult to manage.

The Metropolitan Cathedral choristers attend St Edward's College, which is now not fee-paying, but whose status has changed a few times:

The College had always been a fee paying school, although for many pupils payments were kept low. After the end of the Second World War, the 1944 Education Act saw the College become a Direct Grant Grammar School, with fees paid by local authorities for most pupils.

In the late 1970s the College reverted to full independence, with many pupils receiving support under the Assisted Places Scheme. However, the 1993 Education Act enabled the College to become a self governing Maintained School. After a lengthy consultation and statutory process, St Edward's College became a Grant Maintained School on 1 September 1997. As a result of the abolition of Grant Maintained Status by the 1998 Education Act, the College became a Voluntary Aided School in 1999...

Simultaneously, other important changes occurred. Runnymede, which had started as a preparatory department, became a wholly separate fee-paying school. The College authorities abandoned admission at 11+ based on academic ability...

The College became an Academy in May 2011.

Both boys and girls attend St Edwards, but the younger boys are given places at Runnymede, which is fee-paying. The girls are drawn from any primary school, but of course don't start singing until they're at secondary school.

[french frank]

[St Edward's College] became an Academy in May 2011.

Both boys and girls attend St Edwards, but the younger boys are given places at Runnymede, which is fee-paying. The girls are drawn from any primary school, but of course don't start singing until they're at secondary school.

BCCS was, I think, the first choir school, in 2008, to become an academy. Until now the younger choristers have attended city primary schools but I see that the Cathedral Primary School opens - as a free school - in 2013.