Girl Choristers on Woman's Hour

[ardcarp]

Regrettably the National Plan will be a box-ticking exercise.

[MrGongGong]

Meaning what , you think ?

[Wolsey]

No, not at all; if I'm not mistaken, all of the choristers at Sheffield, Chester, and St Edmundsbury Cathedrals and at Jesus College, Cambridge—to name only a few—come to the choirs from a number of local schools, as do the girl choristers at a handful of others— Winchester comes to mind first.

I believe that the (choir) schools at Bristol, Peterborough and Southwell are non-fee paying, while the choristers of the Anglican and Roman Catholic Cathedrals in Southwark are drawn from schools in the locality.

[teamsaint]

Sadly, all too many cathedral choirs perform the function of a stepping stone to a scholarship to a "good" public school, at least in the eyes of parents.
Even at half fees, the cost of private boarding education is way beyond the reach of even many self denying middle class parents.
I can't see any answer to this other than, as suggested, the C of E decide to become more of an outreach organisation, and less of a property portfolio.
I do know that some choirs, and I understand that Salisbury is one, do a good deal in the way of musical outreach, but this really needs to be encouraged as far as possible. The cathedral choirs are such great centres of ( a certain type of) excellence, that its a crime not to spread this expertise as widely as possible. i feel sure that cathedral choristers also stand to gain a lot from a 2 way process.
going back to Girls choirs, it must be a blessed relief for the boys. In my day, the Sunday Schedule was

Full practise 9.00
eucharist 10.00

matins 11.15. (boys left after Te Deum at around 11.45)

Practise again at 2.30
Evensong 3.00 approx 45 mins

school Chapel at 7.00 for 30 mins.

Roughly 2 hours off when not singing or eating !! The unions would have stopped that if they had got involved !!

[ardcarp]

Almost as bad as sweeping chimneys......

[Wolsey]

Clearly, very little is known about what has been going on in terms of outreach. As the Choir Schools' Association website explains, the original chorister outreach model was pioneered in Truro in 2000. It was adopted by the government in 2008 as part of its Sing Up campaign to boost singing in primary schools. It has had a huge impact on singing in local schools and in the last two years alone some 42 [my italics] cathedral and choir school foundations have:

• Put on more than 9,100 workshops with primary schools
• Visited nearly 1,000 primary schools
• Involved just under 60,000 children
• Organised 700 public performances
• More than 3,083 teachers and other school staff have taken part and just under 1,600 teachers have been trained to lead singing
• 348 under-18s have become singing leaders and there have been 247 trainees involved

Government funding for the Chorister Outreach Programme has now come to an end, but many foundations are continuing to run workshops and concerts.

[teamsaint]

Almost as bad as sweeping chimneys......

already done that on wednesdays, instead of detention !!

[oliviahunt]

At Chester there are choristers that attend non fee paying schools.

[DracoM]

Outreach schemes stop - they just stop. Box ticked, everybody smiles, 'hey we did a really good thing there!' Mutual back slapping. Gangs of PR, self-congratulating.
Now look at the tense of that verb - we 'did' a good thing there?
It's the unglamorous, ongoing, chugging on working at that is what changes things, not PR exercises.
Tell what happened to 'Sing Up!' It's over.

Now check what the E-Bacc is suggesting for the space in the curriculum for 'the Arts', and think again.

[teamsaint]

Outreach schemes stop - they just stop. Box ticked, everybody smiles, 'hey we did a really good thing there!' Mutual back slapping. Gangs of PR, self-congratulating.
Now look at the tense of that verb - we 'did' a good thing there?
It's the unglamorous, ongoing, chugging on working at that is what changes things, not PR exercises.
Tell what happened to 'Sing Up!' It's over.

Now check what the E-Bacc is suggesting for the space in the curriculum for 'the Arts', and think again.

Interesting... and sad...presumably funding is and has been cut?

Outreach schemes must be a good thing... spreading the skills and love of the music is so important.
But sadly, the C of E remains a bastion of privilege, certainly in some of the cathedrals.
But so it goes. Or perhaps I am wrong. Would be happy to be proved wrong.

As DracoM suggests(?), the arts will become ever more confined to the public schools...

[oliviahunt]

I will repeat again in Chester Cathedral Choir there are choristers which go to non fee paying schools !

[teamsaint]

I will repeat again in Chester Cathedral Choir there are choristers which go to non fee paying schools !

That is great.
But its not like that everywhere, sadly.
anyway, a more robust debate on this might better take place on other parts of the board.

[Bryn]

I will repeat again in Chester Cathedral Choir there are choristers which go to non fee paying schools !

Not sure that was any more polite. How about "In Chester Cathedral Choir there are choristers who go to non-fee-paying schools"? :-)

[jean]

"But unto them which are called..."

If it's good enough for the KJV, it's good enough for you, Bryn.

Anyway, if Olivia is one of them, I suppose she can choose how to refer to them.

(Choristers at both Liverpool cathedrals don't go to fee-paying schools, either.)

[Miles Coverdale]

"But unto them which are called..."

If it's good enough for the KJV, it's good enough for you, Bryn.

<pedant>

Except that in the KJV text, 'which' is used in the objective case, while 'who' is correct for the nominative case.

</pedant>