Choral Evening Prayer Westminster Cathedral November, 2nd 2011

[Magnificat]

The Office for the Dead or a Requiem Mass?

Actually the music for the Requiem Mass is just more beautiful whether it be Mozart, Durufle, Faure. And who more appropriate a composer than Victoria in this year, the 400th of his death?

One of Victoria's greatest works sung by the choir which perhaps has more Victoria through their veins then any other in the UK, in an actual liturgical setting - one can smell the incense wafting over the catafalque already...

Apart from Magnificat, I doubt most people will be too disappointed. Victoria's Requiem will be different from some of the syrupy Victoriana but then for some people, that's a good thing.

onemarathon

I agree with you about the music for the Requiem Mass and even though I am not a fan of their sound I can take Westminster Cathedral choir singing it for an hour ( after which it will begin to grate). All I have pointed out is that this slot on Wednesdays is supposed to be Choral Evensong.

As far as I am concerned let's have a Requiem Mass for All Souls' Day but give it its own regular spot on Radio 3.

VCC

[vinteuil]

All I have pointed out is that this slot on Wednesdays is supposed to be Choral Evensong.


VCC

"is supposed to be". What does this mean? Is supposed to be - by whom, apart from yourself?

[Magnificat]

Which bits exactly?

All of it.

Why don't you tell me what bits in modern RC Vespers you think compare for rhythm and poetry with those parts of the BCP Evensong service that I've quoted above.

VCC

[Magnificat]

"is supposed to be". What does this mean? Is supposed to be - by whom, apart from yourself?

vinteuil

Really. Apart from the odd Choral Evening Prayer/ Vespers that's what it has been for the last God knows how many years. I have been listening regularly for some 30 years now and can only remember Requiem Masses last year and this.

VCC

[french frank]

I have been listening regularly for some 30 years now and can only remember Requiem Masses last year and this.

Not much to grumble about then.

Really, one might gain the impression that there was a great kerfuffle about this; but apart from Simon musing as to whether the WCC would be 'up to' it, VCC, you seem to be the only one not welcoming the broadcast. And even you aren't doing so (apparently) for yourself but on behalf of people who might possibly, somewhere, be upset, perhaps.

Perhaps, as Draco hinted earlier, we might concentrate on the music that we have to look forward to?

[orbis factor]

All of it.

Why don't you tell me what bits in modern RC Vespers you think compare for rhythm and poetry with those parts of the BCP Evensong service that I've quoted above.

VCC

I'm not really about making comparisons between the two as I don't have problems with either. I just wondered which of the English spoken bits in WC's Vespers services you don't like? There's not much of it - apart from the intercessions (short) and homily of course.

[onemarathon]

orbis factor

I am referring to the spoken parts of Vespers in modern English which just cannot compare with the BCP Evensong versicles, responses prayers, collects etc.

Spoken parts of Vespers? As far as I am aware, the only spoken parts are about 2-3 mins long - about 5 very brief intercessions and a Scripture reading that is rarely more than a few verses. Sung Vespers (on its own) takes about 30 mins, so more than 90% is in Latin and sung to plainchant - I'm not sure how fussy one has to be to be so dismissive of the worship of 1 billion Xtians.

In any case, for more than 90% of the chanted psalms right down to the versicles themselves (Deus in adiutorium etc.), apart from the language is almost entirely the same as the BCP Evensong liturgy minus the Compline which is a separate office.

(BTW If you're arguing that Latin Catholics should have their liturgy entirely in Latin - then I'm in agreement completely).

[orbis factor]

Spoken parts of Vespers? As far as I am aware, the only spoken parts are about 2-3 mins long - about 5 very brief intercessions and a Scripture reading that is rarely more than a few verses. Sung Vespers (on its own) takes about 30 mins, so more than 90% is in Latin and sung to plainchant - I'm not sure how fussy one has to be to be so dismissive of the worship of 1 billion Xtians.

In any case, for more than 90% of the chanted psalms right down to the versicles themselves (Deus in adiutorium etc.), apart from the language is almost entirely the same as the BCP Evensong liturgy minus the Compline which is a separate office.

(BTW If you're arguing that Latin Catholics should have their liturgy entirely in Latin - then I'm in agreement completely).

Totally in agreement!

[ardcarp]

...perhaps I may add that those starved of Anglican CE could always plug in to a webcast from St John's, NCO or St Thomas Fifth Avenue at 3.30 on Wednesday. Personally I'll be tuning into live R3.....

[Wolsey]

Really. Apart from the odd Choral Evening Prayer/ Vespers that's what it has been for the last God knows how many years. I have been listening regularly for some 30 years now and can only remember Requiem Masses last year and this.

The BBC's online archive goes back to 2004 and John Seboldt's to 2002, so it's not possible to check as far back as 1981 to corroborate this claim. It is inaccurate, of course. All Souls' Day last fell on a Wednesday in 2005, and on that occasion, the music broadcast in the Choral Evensong slot was Duruflé's Requiem from Winchester Cathedral.

[DracoM]

In Latin? From an Anglican Cathedral? Hmm.

[Wolsey]

Now now, DracoM!

[DracoM]

Sorry, couldn't resist it! Promise never to be so flippant in future.

Well............

....maybe a little bit.

[Magnificat]

Not much to grumble about then.

Really, one might gain the impression that there was a great kerfuffle about this; but apart from Simon musing as to whether the WCC would be 'up to' it, VCC, you seem to be the only one not welcoming the broadcast. And even you aren't doing so (apparently) for yourself but on behalf of people who might possibly, somewhere, be upset, perhaps.

Perhaps, as Draco hinted earlier, we might concentrate on the music that we have to look forward to?

french frank

The program has some 2/3 million listeners and we who inhabit this message board are just a handful of them. People being generally conservative don't like change so there are bound to very many who will be annoyed by this departure from the norm.

I still think that it would have been more coherent to have Choral Evensong for All Souls rather than a service that is completely different ( however good the music)?

What other innovations can we expect in future to comply, for example, with our brave new world of diversity and equality? I'm not going to think about it!!

VCC

[ardcarp]

VCC When it's a re-enactment of a Druid celebration of the Summer Solstice, maybe I'll join with you in complaining. Hmm. Second thoughts, it might be interesting.