Choral Evening Prayer Westminster Cathedral November, 2nd 2011

[french frank]

For the many R3 listeners who usually only listen to these great Masses on CD, it's a rare opportunity to hear a liturgical performance. I've only ever heard one - Haydn's Heiligmesse in the Hofburgkapelle on Easter Day, 1980, standing with a tourist rucksack crushed into my face. That sort of immediacy is a mixed experience. Radio 3's broadcast will be rather less distracting, I hope.

[ardcarp]

They are one of the only RC choirs regularly on the CE slot.

Does Liverpool Metropolitan count? Their Vespers broadcasts are more Anglican friendly (for those who need it) as they use psalm chants and other familiar bits. Personally I like some variety...and maybe I've got Popish leanings; of the strictly agnostic sort, obviously.

[orbis factor]

I am sure the choir will sing this service well enough but, although I don't personally object to the broadcast of a requiem Mass on All Souls' Day, this program is supposed to be Choral Evensong and as I said last year when New College did a similar broadcast I really don't see why listeners who want and are expecting to hear CE should have to listen to a requiem Mass.

It must be possible to put together a suitable Evensong for the occasion. One saving grace, though, is that we will be spared the awful liturgy for Choral Vespers which we usually get from Westminster Cathedral.

VCC

Why awful?

[Simon Biazeck]

What a splendid occasion this will be - an opportunity to hear one of the world's greatest church choirs singing a masterwork, as they would on this day, in their place of worship! And what of those poor, hapless souls who tune in expecting to hear Choral Evensong? (Which I too, adore!) Well, if they should fall down dead of shock, then what more glorious harmony could they wish for but Victoria's 6-voice Requiem to see them into eternity? Still, I'm sure they will be fine, with one exception, as we have heard. I credit the majority of Radio 3 listeners with rather more open mindedness and tolerance.

[french frank]

Well, if they should fall down dead of shock, then what more glorious harmony could they wish for but Victoria's 6-voice Requiem to see them into eternity? Still, I'm sure they will be fine, with one exception, as we have heard. I credit the majority of Radio 3 listeners with rather more open mindedness and tolerance.

In any case, for every CE devotee who's missing the familiar recipe there will probably be one new listener (e.g. me) who is tuning in specially.

[Simon Biazeck]

for every CE devotee who's missing the familiar recipe there will probably be one new listener (e.g. me) who is tuning in specially.

Pleased to hear it - my point exactly!

[Wolsey]

I am sure the choir will sing this service well enough but, although I don't personally object to the broadcast of a requiem Mass on All Souls' Day, this program is supposed to be Choral Evensong and as I said last year when New College did a similar broadcast I really don't see why listeners who want and are expecting to hear CE should have to listen to a requiem Mass.

It must be possible to put together a suitable Evensong for the occasion. One saving grace, though, is that we will be spared the awful liturgy for Choral Vespers which we usually get from Westminster Cathedral.

What an odd sense of priorities. Precisely how many listeners does Magnificat believe will tune in to the broadcast on 2 November wanting and expecting to hear Choral Evensong? Indeed, how many people will visit his beloved St Alban's Abbey on the same day wanting and expecting to hear Evensong? If they do so, they will be in for a disappointment...

[AscribeUntoTheLad]

I really don't see why listeners who want and are expecting to hear CE should have to listen to a requiem Mass.

VCC

Surely most cathedral choirs will be doing a Requiem Eucharist on Wednesday? All the ones I've looked at are (admittedly, I've only seen three music lists).

[DracoM]

Well, for those who love the Requiem a 6 by Victoria, St Thomas Fifth Avenue - the leading Episcopalian / Anglican choral foundation in New York City and unarguably one of the great men and boy choirs in the Anglican communion - will be singing it live via webcast at 10.30 p.m. our time on Wednesday 2nd Nov via the church's own website.

And if you're interested, they will be singing a Victoria Mass and Byrd 'Justorum Animae' the previous night [ 1st Nov] again at 10.30 p.m. our time live via their website.

Oh, and Westminster Cathedral have just completed their American tour by giving a concert in St T a fortnight ago.

[Magnificat]

What an odd sense of priorities. Precisely how many listeners does Magnificat believe will tune in to the broadcast on 2 November wanting and expecting to hear Choral Evensong? Indeed, how many people will visit his beloved St Alban's Abbey on the same day wanting and expecting to hear Evensong? If they do so, they will be in for a disappointment...

Wolsey,

Many people WILL tune in expecting to hear Choral Evensong on Wednesday at 3.30. They don't always look up the Radio Times.

If you go to St Albans you will have seen the monthly Music List so will know that there will be a service of solemn eucharist for All Souls Day. Actually, in my opinion, they have far too many eucharists at the Abbey since Jeffrey John, God bless him, became Dean, it has gone very high up the candle these days. Sanctuary bells the lot. I don't mind, I rather enjoy the bells and smells, but the needs of the middle of the road Anglican are in danger of being overlooked in this otherwise wonderfully ecumenical place.

It is only in the last couple of years that the BBC have substituted a requiem Mass for CE at All Souls-tide as far as I am aware. Why don't they do a separate broadcast?

Perhaps the BBC ought to list this slot on Wednesdays as Cathedral Worship rather than Choral Evensong in future.

A more coherent broadcast would be, as I said, Choral Evensong with appropriate music and prayers for All Souls Day.

Orbis Factor,

Compared with Evensong the RC liturgy for Vespers is manifestly awful and lets the music and the choir down to say the least.

I've often thought that it would be a nice ecumenical gesture if Westminster Cathedral did a broadcast of Choral Evensong now and again. There can be no doctrinal objection to it and their congregation would have the pleasure of hearing the incomparable liturgy of the Book of Common Prayer. I won't hold my breath though as the Roman Catholic hierarchy just do not seem to be able to give any sort of lead toward Christian unity despite the last Pope agreeing that our separation is a scandal.

VCC.

[DracoM]

A point of information: the slot next Wednesday is NOT billed as Choral Evensong.
Vespers if sung is specifically - or it is in many foundations - a service conducted almost completely in plainchant. If you do not like plainchant, fair enough, Don't listen. I would rather have a Catholic choir singing it than an Anglican choir who by and large find plainchant a difficult discipline.

If you look even cursorily at Catholic cathedrals music lists you will very quickly see that 'Anglican' music does indeed form pretty significant parts of their lists, as indeed does 'Catholic' music in Choral Evensongs. Not quite sure what point you are trying to make, VCC. My own impression is of a considerable 'catholicity' of music choice throughout the UK, whatever the actual denomination of a particular church / cathedral might be.

[Simon]

A more coherent broadcast would be, as I said, Choral Evensong with appropriate music and prayers for All Souls Day.

Hard to disagree, though I won't be objecting to Victoria.

As for expecting anything from the RC establishment - don't! Unless it increases their own worldly power and influence and wealth, of course!

[Simon]

... an Anglican choir who by and large find plainchant a difficult discipline.

I really don't know where you get your ideas from Draco. Wrong again, I'm afraid.

[Magnificat]

If you look even cursorily at Catholic cathedrals music lists you will very quickly see that 'Anglican' music does indeed form pretty significant parts of their lists, as indeed does 'Catholic' music in Choral Evensongs. Not quite sure what point you are trying to make, VCC. My own impression is of a considerable 'catholicity' of music choice throughout the UK, whatever the actual denomination of a particular church / cathedral might be.

Draco,

I agree that there is a mix of repertoire. I just think that since the broadcast is Choral Evensong it would be rather nice if WC or LMC would sing it. WC sing a combined Evensong with WA from time to time so it is would not be a totally alien thing for them and would also be a nice ecumenical gesture heard by millions.

VCC

[french frank]

I just think that since the broadcast is Choral Evensong it would be rather nice if WC or LMC would sing it. WC sing a combined Evensong with WA from time to time so it is would not be a totally alien thing for them and would also be a nice ecumenical gesture heard by millions.

But the programme 'is' Choral Evensong because, or when, the service is one of Choral Evensong; much in the way that many Radio 3 music programmes 'are' classical except when they're something else, like jazz. The deviations - if I may call them that without offence - are occasional and give great pleasure to those who normally are not catered for.

The Victoria Requiem Mass is an extraordinarily beautiful and important work, and Radio 3 listeners - that is, all of them who have an interest in such music, not just the faithful - are very privileged to have the opportunity to hear it sung by such a choir on such an occasion. That consideration, in my view, takes precedence over the (temporary?) disappointment some might feel of being deprived of a more familiar service. If outrage doesn't compel them to switch off before the alien sounds reach their ears, I'm sure they will find it very moving.