Protesters and St Paul's

[Mr Pee]

Yes, camping out in London is unlikely to have any significant impact

And not camping out even less:-

Using thermal cameras, The Met Police have now determined that only 10% of the tents are occupied overnight.Surely unoccupied tents should be cleared away immediately. If I were to leave a rucksack unattended on the steps of St.Pauls, then the police would be called and it would be investigated as a possible explosive device. The tents are a security risk- and an eyesore- and should be treated the same way.

[mercia]

who owns the land that forms the precincts of St Paul's? the church? the Corporation of London?
I only ask because if the church owns the land and they have said the protesters (and by implication their tents) can stay, then I don't see that anyone else has any say in the matter.

[MrGongGong]

That really (surprise ............not) doesn't answer any questions at all does it ?

[amateur51]

And not camping out even less:-

Using thermal cameras, The Met Police have now determined that only 10% of the tents are occupied overnight.Surely unoccupied tents should be cleared away immediately. If I were to leave a rucksack unattended on the steps of St.Pauls, then the police would be called and it would be investigated as a possible explosive device. The tents are a security risk- and an eyesore- and should be treated the same way.

I wonder how much it cost to send up a helicopter & use thermal imaging cameras?

Why not just send officers round to have a chat with everyone & take note of empty tents?

[BBMmk2]

Well, why can't the police evict the protesters?

[Mr Pee]

That really (surprise ............not) doesn't answer any questions at all does it ?

I assume that the above is in response to my post about the 10% occupancy rate. Your question was specifically directed at practicing Christians. I am not a practicing Christian, or even a non-practicing one, so I felt under no compunction to answer.

And Amateur- the police helicopter is up and about over London for various reasons most nights anyway, and is equipped with thermal imaging equipment as standard, so the cost is immaterial. It's paid for out of the police budget.

And you can just imagine the response if the police had decided to have a "chat" with the protesters in the middle of the night. There'd be the usual bleating from protesters and Guardian readers alike - including certain contributors here - about police harassment.

[amateur51]

Well, why can't the police evict the protesters?

The land on which they're camped 'belongs' to up to seven different land-owners, BBM. I think they'd have to get eviction notices from seven different land-owners.

It could also be that no-one has complained officially about trespass

[amateur51]

so the cost is immaterial. It's paid for out of the police budget.

Oh well that's ok then

I doubt that the police helicopter (there's only one??) is up every night, they're extremely expensive to run. There'll have to be a detailed mission 'chit' to be signed off for every flight, I'd hope. And the police budget has to be cut by 20%, so this use is not immaterial.

I for one would not squeal if the police did some genuine community policing, provided that their pepper spray & tazers were left back at the ranch.

Oh and hand guns too

[Mr Pee]

Oh well that's ok then

I doubt that the police helicopter (there's only one??) is up every night, they're extremely expensive to run. There'll have to be a detailed mission 'chit' to be signed off for every flight, I'd hope. And the police budget has to be cut by 20%, so this use is not immaterial.

I for one would not squeal if the police did some genuine community policing, provided that their pepper spray & tazers were left back at the ranch.

Oh and hand guns too

I didn't say EVERY night, I said MOST nights. Do pay attention, Amateur.

As for the pepper spray and tazers, surely the police should have every piece of equipment necessary to defend themselves, given the dangerous situations they often venture into. And a small minority carry handguns, which are used extremely rarely. I think you've been watching too many Dirty Harry films.

[amateur51]

I didn't say EVERY night, I said MOST nights. Do pay attention, Amateur.

As for the pepper spray and tazers, surely the police should have every piece of equipment necessary to defend themselves, given the dangerous situations they often venture into. And a small minority carry handguns, which are used extremely rarely. I think you've been watching too many Dirty Harry films.

The police service's 'score' of deaths from their using pepper spray, tazers, and handguns on innocent people (everyone is innocent until proven guilty, remember) this year alone is sufficient to render your remarks flippant and contemptible, Mr Pee.

[Mr Pee]

The police service's 'score' of deaths from their using pepper spray, tazers, and handguns on innocent people (everyone is innocent until proven guilty, remember) this year alone is sufficient to render your remarks flippant and contemptible, Mr Pee.

Do give the figures and the context in which each incident occured, Amateur. Without them your post is meaningless. And I'll be most interested to see whether anybody has died from a dose of pepper spray.......

[amateur51]

Do give the figures and the context in which each incident occured, Amateur. Without them your post is meaningless. And I'll be most interested to see whether anybody has died from a dose of pepper spray.......

Like I said, completely contemptible AND deeply ignorant of current events, witness

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2011/08/23/police-watchdog-launch-investigation-after-pe

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/three-deaths-in-eight-days-spark-concern-over-arrest-methods-2343389.html

Get off your self-satisfied fundament and do a bit of googling for the rest.

[Mr Pee]

Like I said, completely contemptible AND deeply ignorant of current events, witness

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2011/08/23/police-watchdog-launch-investigation-after-pe

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/three-deaths-in-eight-days-spark-concern-over-arrest-methods-2343389.html

Get off your self-satisfied fundament and do a bit of googling for the rest.

Thank you for that polite and corteous instruction, Amateur.

I did a bit of googling, and if you had read the Independent article to the end, you would have read the following:-

The detailed post-mortem examination found no physical injuries on Jacob that could be attributable to a cause of his death. There is no evidence that the use of pepper spray was a contributory factor to Mr Michael becoming unwell or a cause of his death.

Also:-

Mr Hulmes had reportedly begun stabbing himself in the stomach when police broke into his house; they stunned him because he was still violent, they said. He later died in hospital.

So do we think the death was due to the Taser, or the fact that the individual concerned had been repeatedly stabbing himself in the stomach? We don't know, do we, but I'm pretty suire that being repeatedly stabbed in the stomach is usually fatal. And that by the use of a Taser, the police would have prevented him from further self-harm. Too late, by the sound of it, but at least they tried.

And then:-

On Monday, a 25-year-old amateur rugby enthusiast, Jacob Michael, collapsed and died after he was hit in the face with pepper spray and later subdued by up to 11 officers as he tried to avoid arrest for affray.

If it took 11 officers and pepper spray to subdue him, then who knows what the actual cause of death was? He was clearly not going quietly, was he?

[amateur51]

I did read the article, Mr Pee

That's why I passed it on to you

Your last comment - that's called 'blaming the victim' - a man is dead - a disproprtionate amount of force was used, including taser & pepper spray. And you're not concerned about that, plainly

Three in a row - that's a record!

And we still haven't had a resolution of the murder by the police of Mark Duggan in Tottengham nearly three months ago that coincided with the start of the riots. What a shame there isn't as much urgency to investigate what happened to Mark Duggan as there is to speedily process the thieves associated with the riots and to hand them disproportionately harsh sentences

[Mr Pee]

I did read the article, Mr Pee

That's why I passed it on to you

Your last comment - that's called 'blaming the victim' - a man is dead - a disproprtionate amount of force was used, including taser & pepper spray. And you're not concerned about that, plainly

I wasn't aware that you were present at the incident, Amateur; I can only deduce that you were, given that you are so certain that a "disproportionate" amount of force was used. Please enlighten us as to the exact sequence of events.