Protesters and St Paul's

[Oldcrofter]

Those of us who languish in darkness look to you for enlightenment, oh great Orbis, Creator (and Master ?) of the World.

[Simon]

Sad, because the basic cause to campaign against irresponsible greed has some ethical legs, but to do it like this does not IMO show much savvy.

Perfect analysis, Draco. I don't always (often?!! ) agree with you on CE matters, but you've got this one right IMO!

Nonetheless, I have little doubt it could have been better handled. But it's not really fair to blame the St. P authorities: surely it's well without their experience.

[John Skelton]

Round the corner is the Bank of England. So why the heck choose St Paul's? Yes, it's highly visible, will carry big images round the world - for a day or two, but in wider Britain, my guess is that the reaction will be rather one of serious disapproval. Sad, because the basic cause to campaign against irresponsible greed has some ethical legs, but to do it like this does not IMO show much savvy.

They didn't "choose St Paul's," though. They were prevented by the police from approaching Paternoster Square / occupying the London Stock Exchange - the same thing would unquestionably happen if they attempted to set up camp outside the Bank of England, or any other financial institution.

http://occupythecity.co.uk/police-block-london-stock-exchange-from-occupy-protesters/500645

[MrGongGong]

One of the things that this highlights is how our public space has been privatised
(worth watching/reading some of Mark Thomas's stuff on this IMV)
we seem to have , quite happily, given away our right to public space (which also reminded me of Fay Godwin's seminal "Our Forbidden Land")
in other countries this would be seen as totally unacceptable that we can't , when feeling strongly about an issue, march on the seat of power or even protest outside the place where the power lies !
Protest (and for what its worth , religion !) is supposed to be a disruption from everyday life , it really is a waste of time if you have to go on a course, get an NVQ and apply for a permit from the plod before you are allowed to make your views known in a peaceful way.
When we look at other countries (the recent "Arab Spring" is a classic example or the Tiananmen Square protests) we celebrate the way in which ordinary people protest against injustice , none of those things would be allowed in the UK without "permission"

[orbis factor]

Those of us who languish in darkness look to you for enlightenment, oh great Orbis, Creator (and Master ?) of the World.

Thought so.

[Flosshilde]

I can see their aim / cause, but for my money this is an own goal: the British are likely to forgive peaceful protesters a lot, but to block a hugely important church from operating is asking for big PR trouble. The pix, the reportage, the interviews, the loss of public sympathy over a very un-British form of protest? Clueless IMO.

It's not the protesters who have closed the church, but the church authorities. The Dean's statement (http://www.stpauls.co.uk/News-Press/...auls-Cathedral) refers to problems with access and fire safety from cooking stoves. As this picture shows (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15390508), the camp doesn't obstruct any of the major entrances, and as far as the fires are concerned, perhaps the Cathedral should show practical support for the camp & provide cooking facilities (I'm sure there must be some in the cathedral buildings) and/or 'soup-kitchens' so that the cooking stoves are not neccessary. I'm sure the protesters would be happy to provide food or donations to pay for it.

[Serial_Apologist]

Surely there is more than one entrance to St Pauls?

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

the privatisation of public space is a disgraceful feature of modern communities ... concrete deserts everywhere and bans on photography [the insurance risk analysts are some of the villains in the piece, no doubt at ST Pauls as well]

the Occupation has branched out to Finsbury Square ....

and it is reassuring that the CoE can be relied on to support the Establishment Interest come what may eh ..... [donations eh]

[amateur51]

Again - purely speculation on your part. As usual, you seem blinded by your own ignorance.

You seem to know something but are unwilling to share it, orbis factor.

An unsatisfactory state of affairs.

"Put up or shut up" would seem to cover it

[french frank]

There are issues to discuss here, and conflicting views. Can we keep it polite, please? <<<< [Smile On Face Of Tiger]

[DracoM]

Surely there is more than one entrance to St Pauls?

Have to say that that is exactly what I thought. I'm sure I have used either the south or north entrance at one time or another. Maybe I've got that wrong.

[orbis factor]

You seem to know something but are unwilling to share it, orbis factor.

An unsatisfactory state of affairs.

"Put up or shut up" would seem to cover it

I don't imagine anyone with inside information on this would be so crass as to share it here. However the point still stands that there are are certain people on this board who make it perfectly clear through their speculative postings they know nothing of the difficulties of this situation yet are still willing to make comments/assumptions that could be seen as extremely unfair by those having to deal with it. I think just "shut up" would do really.

[DracoM]

Well, orbis factor, help us in our ignorance - genuine question, and no sneer involved at all. What are the factors that led the D&C to shut down so totally?

[orbis factor]

Well, orbis factor, help us in our ignorance - genuine question, and no sneer involved at all. What are the factors that led the D&C to shut down so totally?

Probably best to write to the Dean and ask.

[Flosshilde]

there are are certain people on this board who make it perfectly clear through their speculative postings they know nothing of the difficulties of this situation yet are still willing to make comments/assumptions that could be seen as extremely unfair by those having to deal with it.

That would be everybody but you, Orbis?
The Dean's statement (see the link in my post above) explains fairly clearly why the cathedral authorities decided to close it; the arial photograph (link in the same post) indicates that there were/are no problems of access (all major entrances were clear) - none of that is speculation on my part - & the other concern - fire risks - could have been dealt with by negotiation.

If you know any other reasons perhaps you should make them clear, even if it would be 'crass' (!). Otherwise, yes, I think

just "shut up" would do really.