CE Westminster Abbey 12th October 2011

[DracoM]

I say, chaps...........so much heat rather than light, and the poor blighters haven't even sung yet!

[ardcarp]

May I divert you a little with Brassbandmaestro's undoubtedly authentic clain to Edward the Confessor as a forebear? This is certainly impressive, but let's do a little maths here. Let us assume (conservatively) that E the C had had two children by 1050. About 38 generations have passed between then and Brassbandmaestro's living relatives. If we assume (again conservatively) that each generation produced two children, then E the C will have spawned 2 to the power of 38 descendants. That is an awful lot...a bit like the 'doubling the grains of rice on the chess-board' problem. I haven't done the calculation, but the number is probably higher than the population of the UK! We need to set a statistical geneticist to work, but suffice it to say probably quite a lot of us are related to E the C.

[Vile Consort]

It's about 275 billion, or something like 40 times the current population of the planet. Wonder where they are all hiding?

[decantor]

It's about 275 billion, or something like 40 times the current population of the planet. Wonder where they are all hiding?

After a thousand years, I imagine quite a few of them are lurking under the daisies.

[Gabriel Jackson]

pole_2_pole

Do you mean to tell me that out of all our cathedral choirs of boys and men there was not one capable of broadcasting during September. If so that is disgraceful. Frankly, I would question whether any DoM approached to broadcast in September and who turned the chance down is up to his job. If any DoM hasn't got half a dozen boys capable of holding the top line at any one time he/she is a waste of space.

VCC

Do you actually know of any all-male choirs that were offered a September broadcast but turned it down because they weren't up to it?!

[DracoM]

Difference between 'capable of' and 'keen to'? My guess is that many could, but whether many would choose to....?
September return has to be a tricky one for DoMs with boy-led choirs. You may plan for wonderful things, nay you have to for worship / service lists etc, but those first few sessions with the 'new' front line have to be done with fingers crossed, I would have thought.

As I have said elsethread, I know one very prominent foundation this last September where the DoM had distressingly to tell three very senior boys on the spot they could no longer sing in the choir. Changes the entire balance of the treble line, and it takes time for the others to know where the leadership is going to come from, and indeed for those new leaders to realise the huge responsibility they now carry. First month not easy. Now, of course you can fall on your feet and find leaders prontissimo and the whole treble line perks up and gives it their best. Of course, in a well-run / resourced foundation, a treble line is not going founder and mumble into silence, but I will still maintain that that first month is a testing time for all until things shake down.

[Magnificat]

Do you actually know of any all-male choirs that were offered a September broadcast but turned it down because they weren't up to it?!

Gabriel,

I am unlikely to know whether any were or not am I, but I think it highly likely that DoMs make it clear which dates they do not want and that it is more than possible that some have declined a September broadcast because their boys are not up to it for whatever reasons, otherwise why have we not had one this year?

We always used to have broadcasts from cathedral choirs of boys and men in September what has changed? All the problems mentioned above have always existed.

VCC

[Gabriel Jackson]

Gabriel,

I am unlikely to know whether any were or not am I

Precisely - which is why all this railing against the supposed inadequcies/incompetence of those (unnamed) Directors of Music, who have, apparently, decided their choirs are not up to broadcasting in September is purely speculative.

[decantor]

We always used to have broadcasts from cathedral choirs of boys and men in September what has changed? All the problems mentioned above have always existed. VCC

VCC, here is the evidence of SEPTEMBER all-male CEs from the previous five years ---

---- 2006: The Tewkesbury Schola Cantorum in Tenbury: their choir school had just closed, yet the choir sang only a fortnight after their reconstitution
---- 2007: Hereford sang Leighton's Coll Mag, and the Abbey gave us Tippett's Sancti Johannis (no chicken there!)
---- 2008: Vespers from the Oratory, and CE from Blackburn
---- 2009: Chelmsford (if this was indeed an all-male choir)
---- 2010: Worcester (on the 15th, barely a week into term), and Southwark

If DoMs are indeed avoiding broadcast exposure in September, it is a phenomenon first seen this year - there is certainly no trend. Is it not more likely that the absence of an all-male CE in Sept this year is due to the decision to fit in the 9/11 broadcast from USA, as well as the usual RSCM service from Germany and the SCF recording? There are, after all, only four Wednesdays in September. I share your disappointment of course, but I do not see it as cause to despair of DoMs' courage or boys' proficiency: it's just happenstance. My own correspondents report on wonderful start-of-term services in Southwell, Norwich, Winchester, and elsewhere. I'm sure such foundations were simply not invited to make broadcasts rather than turned them down. Any displeasure should be aimed at the BBC for not searching out the choirs that can perform, rather than at the DoMs and choirs that always find a way to inspire. But even the Beeb can't add to the Wednesdays available for broadcasts.

[Magnificat]

I did originally say 'If' any DoM had turned down a chance to broadcast I thought it disgraceful and I still think that it is disgraceful that with only two weeks to go to half term we are going to hear our first CE from a choir of boys and men - whatever the reason.

VCC

[DracoM]

VCC

Do you ever listen via webcast to St Thomas Fifth Avenue NYC / DoM John Scott? An all-male choir that sings the Anglican liturgy Tues, Wed, Thurs, Sunday twice EVERY week. Live. Very easy to get. Use Windows Media Player or QuickTime. Easy - and rewarding.

[Finzi4ever]

Wow, that was good!

[decantor]

The real McCoy. Pure bliss.

[DracoM]

Introit and Martin responses sung unaccompanied, and showed admirably how balanced and competent an ensemble this is. The Bruckner I thought was particularly fine. Psalms sung at a rattling good rate and the balance between organ and choir very good indeed – plenty of light and shade, good diction, altogether a brisk and auspicious start. Trebles in good and confident form, and the antiphonal work first rate.

The Leighton canticles were thrilling: rhythmic drive was infectious and Robert Quinney was a very fine and inventive accompanist. The engineers deserve a medal for how that was balanced in that huge acoustic.

I have a huge problem with Elgar, so, I leave thoughts on that to those savvy and better informed. All that jolly shouting not my cup of tea. Choir delivered it with considerable professional polish and the whole service was beautifully brisked along by James O’Donnell – no wallowing, no sentimentality, just acute musical judgement.

[Simon Biazeck]

The Mendelssohn transcription was brilliantly played - utterly thrilling! And that top drawer Leighton never fails to delight!