CE Westminster Abbey 12th October 2011

[Y Mab Afradlon]

Very enjoyable service. Really liked the Matthew Martin Responses, they are a very pleasant addition to the repertoire. I hope that they will be let out into the public domain soon. Leighton Canticles sung with such style and as has been commented superb playing by Robert Quinney. Thought the Elgar was one of the finest performances I'd heard - had all the nuiances in dynamics and colours from the orchestral score. The Abbey Tenors at their brilliant best as well. Jolly good show.

[ardcarp]

Especially enjoyed the psalms.
I may have a faulty memory, but hasn't the Elgar Give unto the Lord been wheeled out quite a lot on CE lately?
Loved Os Justi. Isn't there some dispute over its ending?

[Double Diapason]

I had the good fortune of hearing them in the flesh at the start of the month and my expectations for this broadcast were high! I have not been disappointed. Superb in every way!! Robert Q in particular deserves mention for the best playing I have heard in a long time both 10 days ago in the flesh and today - stunning!
Don't think the high praise for the sound chaps is deserved though. For my money it is one of the easier ones to capture!

[Simon Biazeck]

Isn't there some dispute over its ending?

If you are referring to the plainchant Alleluia, there is no dispute; it should only be sung in 'tempore Paschali' and as we are not in Eastertide it was not used.

[decantor]

I may have a faulty memory, but hasn't the Elgar Give unto the Lord been wheeled out quite a lot on CE lately?

Your memory's in fine shape, ardcarp: this was Give unto's fourth outing in as many years (though one was an archive - The BMR Show). Actually, I share DracoM's problems with Elgar's choral output. But heck, when a good choir's at the top of its game, I stop worrying about what they're singing. At least the Elgar provides bags of scope for the performers.

[Magnificat]

Everyone seems to have enjoyed this broadcast, and so did I in terms of the music chosen, so I really hesitate to be at all critical but I have to say that I wasn't convinced by the choir which I thought was very good but not really a great choir.

What I criticise mainly was the lack of a consistent smoothness and musicality about the singing. To me the boys struggled a bit ( I found myself thinking quite often during the service, for example, that this was next year's choir ) and I thought I heard some odd sounds from the men at times!

It's not just WA as I find this with many of our choirs. There was at times, to me anyway, quite a lot of raggedness and, I have to disagree with comments above, a lack of polish.

Ardcarp - re Os Justi. I've heard it sung much better. The boys just did not soar and in the second phrase of meditabitur sapientiam and sustain the long line where the performance of this piece is really made in my opinion. All I can say is that if you had heard it done as I have at St Albans by BMR and, I must also say, by Andrew Lucas you would know what I mean.

Everyone knows that I have never been the greatest fan of WA under James O'Donnell so what I have written may sound like I am carping again but I have to write what I think and I am obviously in a minority of one at the moment so it must just be me but there you are. We all hear choirs differently and it will be ever thus I suppose. I'll listen to the repeat on Sunday and see if I think differently afterwards to be fair to them.

VCC

[DracoM]

I think you went into this CE with a pre-disposition to find it disappointing in some way and were not disappointed.

[ardcarp]

I think you went into this CE with a pre-disposition to find it disappointing in some way and were not disappointed.

Oh daer. I think that's a bit hard on VCC who is expessing an informed opinion. I find myself agreeing with the tenor (pun intended) of what he said, but without wishing to join in the inevitable BMR veneration! There was to my ears also a certain sense of strain in the trebles and sometimes tenors too, especially in the vocally taxing canticles. They did not soar effortlessly...indeed one wonders whether effortless saoring may be a thing of the past? I did enjoy the CE very much and it was thoroughly professional, well directed and well-tuned. But I do know what VCC means. We were not in the presence of one of the great choirs...such as St Thomas NY!

Going back to Os Justi, I do find its ending, without the plainsong, a bit peremptory. I've heard various stories about it, one being that the plainsong happened to be on the same bit of m/s paper and got published by accident. Sounds far-fetched to me. Anyway I would have liked to have heard it yesterday...after all, surely StTed dserves a bit of a cheer?

On re-listening, I find I enjoy the psalmody best...really well done.

[Magnificat]

I think you went into this CE with a pre-disposition to find it disappointing in some way and were not disappointed.

Draco,

I agree with you actually, this can be a danger. I try not to.

By the way, I never answered you about St T New York. I do listen now and again to their web casts. They are a fantastic choir there is no doubt about it. I last heard them live at the St Albans IOF Three Choirs six years ago and I thought them better than St John's who were also singing under David Hill. It was at this concert that St Albans sang Os Justi as one of their individual pieces - fabulous!

VCC.

[Y Mab Afradlon]

For those interested I tweeted my congrats to Matthew Martin and asked if his responses would be published soon. He replied that Faber plan to do so soon. Happy days. He was also very complementary about the performance.

[Simon Biazeck]

Going back to Os Justi, I do find its ending, without the plainsong, a bit peremptory. I've heard various stories about it, one being that the plainsong happened to be on the same bit of m/s paper and got published by accident. Sounds far-fetched to me. Anyway I would have liked to have heard it yesterday...after all, surely StTed dserves a bit of a cheer?

Please see post no. 34 for reply to this query. Bruckner almost certainly penned it in his own plainsong style. The text can be found in the Graduale Romanum under COMMUNE DOCTORUM ECCLESIAE

[ardcarp]

Any broadcast from St Alban's on the horizon?

[Simon]

He was also very complementary about the performance.

Fully complementary, no doubt.

I hope to catch this on Sunday - looking forward to it, after the various positive opinions on here.

[DracoM]

Yes, I think the tenor[s?] was pretty prominent, maybe a tad too much perhaps, but.....but sang well to lead the bottom two parts. I forgot to mention the altos who had to shoulder a real burden in that repertoire and did pretty well to my ears.

Ref boys: well, is 'soaring' that easy to capture on modern relatively close-mic technology? It seems to me that ways in which such choirs are mic-ed these days has I think changed. Elderly recordings of KCC / Salisbury / John's for example generally give much more halo to the treble sound, more 'mystic distance'. Not today so much. Is soaring fashionable? Does 'soar' imply a bit of scoop? Likewise, in such elderly recordings, the men were often seen as the supporting act - certainly the way a lot of the Renaissance repertoire was sold to a wider market with pix of candles up-lighting rapt looking pretty choir lads in their pristine ruffs to wow grannies etc etc etc, but marketing of the repertoire has changed a heck of a lot, recording techniques have changed a lot, and above all, DoMs' attitudes to integrating and bringing out the men in the texture thus putting much more strain on the lads has also changed a lot. In the circs, I thought those boys had a presence, and confidence, and one or two or more had good brave top and some a lovely chest / steel to their voices which held up well under pressure. And in this repertoire there was pressure!

Just a few thoughts.

[ardcarp]

Yes, I think 'soaring' (and I definitely don't mean swooping) belongs to the days of pure head voices when 'chest register' was positively frowned on. I can remember (just) finding high notes...top C and even higher....no sweat. But I think we sang more quietly and were not overwhelmed by powerful men. I suspect volume levels have gone up quite markedly. And I do positively like some colour in the top line. Those who know me get terribly bored with my constant eulogies about New College Oxford, for instance.