Lincoln makes the Daily Mail

[DracoM]

Does the Mail know / care about Jamiewhall's allegations?

[Simon]

Rumblings of discontent reached me a while ago. I can't confirm whether the post was advertised or not, as I'm unlikely to see such adverts.

The Lincoln choral establishment seems to have an unfortunate propensity for getting itself into unnecessary difficulties with some regularity. It's a shame.

[Jamiewhall]

I've since been informed that the alto vacancy was in fact for a choral scholar, not a lay clerk. All this fuss (much of it my own) over a one year appointment! Obviously my criticism of Lincoln was a huge overreaction. My sincere apologies to anyone who this may have upset.

[Magnificat]

Still begs the question as to how Lincoln will use the lady in her year there if she is indeed a soprano?

As far as Lincoln choir is concerned I am still hoping that one day the boys and men will once again broadcast CE rather than the combined forces ( including the new choral scholar).

VCC

[bull-scheidt]

I'm reliably informed she's going to be singing alto.

[makropulos]

Whether or not you agree with female altos being allowed to join cathedral choirs is beside the point on this one. Lincoln Cathedral appointed without advertising the position and against the wishes of the rest of the back row, who have been told to keep quiet! And who is this marvellous new contralto? The girlfriend of a current Lincoln choral scholar and, apparently, a soprano!
So everything that the Lincoln spokesman (or woman!) said about her being the best for the job and how they're simply trying to produce the best possible music "to the glory of God" is a load of bull to cover up the fact that presumably somebody couldn't be arsed to go through the appointment process.

I think you should think a lot more carefully before hurling accusations like this around. This kind of utterly ill-informed gossip is typical of the sort of nonsense muttered in corridors by some of the people who are employed by or otherwise participate in the choral activities of the Established Church. It's pretty disreputable - but I've no doubt that the "back row" are busy stoking the flames over a pint at every opportunity.

You do realize that it's completely untrue to suggest that there was no appointment process? But then facts clearly don't get in the way of a bit of mud-slinging.

[doversoul1]

makropulos
Jamie did apologise as soon as he found out that he had been mis/ill-informed (#33). Let’s accept his apology for this time.

This thread has been most interesting and I hope it will resume the discussion of different voices and their effects. And English cathedral tradition.

Going back to Iestyn Davies's article posted by David Underdown (#22). I remember reading his interview some while ago (2009?) in which he said that he’d rather be thought as just a voice along with mezzo or tenor rather than bracketed as countertenor. He seems to have changed his thinking. Or is he saying the same thing? Sorry, this is a bit off the topic.

[makropulos]

makropulos
Jamie did apologise as soon as he found out that he had been mis/ill-informed (#33). Let’s accept his apology for this time.

This thread has been most interesting and I hope it will resume the discussion of different voices and their effects. And English cathedral tradition.

Going back to Iestyn Davies's article posted by David Underdown (#22). I remember reading his interview some while ago (2009?) in which he said that he’d rather be thought as just a voice along with mezzo or tenor rather than bracketed as countertenor. He seems to have changed his thinking. Or is he saying the same thing? Sorry, this is a bit off the topic.

Fair point, Doversoul, and I suppose it's reasonable to accept his apology. But it's always easy to say sorry afterwards - for a knee-jerk reaction involving blatantly defamatory accusations - a bit of circumspection would have been useful... This kind of gossip-driven dishonesty is distressing and offensive - and not just to the people it concerns directly (of whom I'm not one).

[Chris Newman]

Cases of the difficulty of filling the "adult" voices in cathedral choirs are legion. It is fine to advertise vacant positions but the main problem lies in prospective candidates finding other employment to make up a realistic income on which to survive when those other employers have to accept the peculiar working hours demanded by the cathedral choir. No cathedral is going to move CE to 6.30pm because they cannot get enough singers. This usually means altos, tenors and basses finding a part-time teaching post in a sympathetic school (or schools) on the doorstep of the cathedral. Both candidates and cathedral choirs have to be realistic in order to maintain the quantity of adult singers and the quality of the choir.

[french frank]

Going back to Iestyn Davies's article posted by David Underdown (#22). I remember reading his interview some while ago (2009?) in which he said that he’d rather be thought as just a voice along with mezzo or tenor rather than bracketed as countertenor. He seems to have changed his thinking. Or is he saying the same thing?

I think his point was mainly about the few opportunities available for young countertenors to develop their voices.

You might get similar objections from actresses if a young man was given the part of Ophelia or Desdemona in a high profile new Shakespearean production.

[DracoM]

FWIW, I would suggest that jamiewhall's posting was not 'dishonest'. It seemed to me indeed 'knee-jerk', but based on what one might surmise was an honest reading of incompletely heard / gossip / hearsay. There is a big difference between that and conscious and fomenting 'spin', surely?

It also seemed to me that whatever the provenance, he was expressing a very real fear of many young singers / performers who find their place in their chosen world usurped by what they / their mates might call unfair substitution. He is surely right to suggest that if the Lincoln practice became widespread, young male altos / countertenors would become an extinct species within 30 years and more or less unviable as a career option. The performance of Early Music of various kinds would, IMHO, be irretrievably impoverished.

So while one might regret the haste, at least that haste has turned up a real lurking fear that DoMs / Ds and Cs nationwide might well be less choosy and looking elsewhere than for men to people bits of the back rows.

A door shuts, maybe never to open again?

[Gabriel Jackson]

So while one might regret the haste, at least that haste has turned up a real lurking fear that DoMs / Ds and Cs nationwide might well be less choosy and looking elsewhere than for men to people bits of the back rows.

A door shuts, maybe never to open again?

Whatever the ins and outs of this particular situation, there is a real problem with finding male altos who want to/can sing with cathedral choirs in many establishments.

[Jamiewhall]

To clarify: The content of my original message is true if my (I assume) reliable source is to be believed. I just don't think filling a scholar post in this way is unusual or that big a deal. Hence the back-step in the intensity of my complaint. I would not post any information based on idle gossip, though in this instance the lack of one tiny detail made a huge difference.

[DracoM]

Please explain that somewhat gnomic posting?!!