Choral Vespers from Westminster Cathedral 8.xii.X

[WmByrd]

VCC always says that about WCC. He'd prefer Southwell every week. Or even Canterbury.

Think the R-K is a vespers regular. Once encountered it written out in unison in square notation!

[jean]

I thought the rest of the service and music typical Catholic gloom.

I'm amazed that anyone could think that of Victoria's intense and exquisite setting of these beautiful, passionate (and barely appropriate) words from the Song of Songs:

Vidi speciosam sicut columbam ascendentem desuper rivos aquarum, cuius inestimabilis odor erat nimis in vestimentis eius; et sicut dies verni circumdabant eam flores rosarum et lilia convallium.

Quae est ista quae ascendit per desertum sicut virguli fumi ex aromatibus myrrhae et thuris? Et sicut dies verni circumdabant eam flores rosarum et lilia convallium.

(I saw my fair one like a dove rising above the streams of water, whose incomparable fragrance was strong in her garments; and as on a spring day she was circled about by flowers of roses and lilies of the valley.

Who is this that cometh out of the wilderness like pillars of smoke from perfume of myrrh and frankincense? And as on a spring day she was circled about by flowers of roses and lilies of the valley.)

[Don Basilio]

Were they singing in the Lady Chapel, (where Vespers takes place daily) or in the main choir? Don't they usually keep the boys for mass and have vespers sung solely by the men? (Catholic gloom? Calvinists are gloomy.)

[jean]

I should think they were almost certainly in the main choir, as they are for Vespers on Sundays. The full choir wouldn't fit in the Lady Chapel!

[Magnificat]

Wm Byrd et al

I think the problem is that the Vespers liturgy we heard is so awful.

I am not a great fan of the WCC sound but I accept that many like it and regard the choir highly.

Would it be too outrageous to suggest that WCC sing the glorious words of evensong for CE now and again?

The service is after all derived from the original catholic evening offices.

It would be a nice ecumenical gesture on their part.

[ardcarp]

It's interesting that when Liverpool Metroplitan Cathedral do a Vespers broadcast, they incorpotrate many CE-like bits, e.g. psalms with Anglican chants. I think it would be too much to expect The Drome to do that. It would be good to hear a High Mass...but there is so much stagecraft going on, I think it would have to be on TV. Otherwise there would be long pauses with occasional clinks from censers whilst heavily garbed clerics and their acolytes shuffled from place to place.

[jean]

Would it be too outrageous to suggest that WCC sing the glorious words of evensong for CE now and again?

Yes it would!

Quite a bit of the service was in Latin anyway, which trumps even the BCP every time.

[Don Basilio]

Yes it would!

Quite a bit of the service was in Latin anyway, which trumps even the BCP every time.

As an Anglican I used the Roman Daily Office (including vespers) for many years, and would never consider using the BCP evensong with its unrelated bleeding chunks. (The current C of E daily prayer is good, though.)

I don't like singing psalms to Anglican chant at all - it's fine sung by a proper choir, but even then it hasn't got a candle on plainchant tones.

[Simon]

Interesting to see such divergent views! - I expect, as with so many things, it's what you're used to.

I agree with VCC on this one - the repetitive, rather boring catholic stuff can't hold a candle to an English CE from BCP for me. But then, I rate the activities of the RC establishment - note: not the activities of many of its followers - over most of the past 2000 years as a hindrance to christianity, rather than a help, so I'm biased anyway.

As regards the service itself, it was, IMO, well sung, as one would expect from that place. And youngsters deserve and need all our support, so well done trebs!

I love the Latin language, and many settings thereof - but that wasn't V's finest work, I think.

bws to all

S-S!

[Anna]

I agree with VCC on this one - the repetitive, rather boring catholic stuff can't hold a candle to an English CE from BCP for me.
bws to all
S-S!

First we had 'Gloomy' now, Simon has said boring ... Well, I have to disagree. Now can I briefly go off-topic in the hope that Simon or Jean will remember. Some years ago R3 broadcast a full-length Orthodox Mass during Advent but could have been Epiphany from, I think some remote Monastry in somewhere remote. I thought I had it via TotalRecorder but cannot find it on the computer. Any clues?

[subcontrabass]

Some years ago R3 broadcast a full-length Orthodox Mass during Advent but could have been Epiphany

For many years Radio 3 used to broadcast a recording of the Christmas Vigil Service for Russian (Old Calendar) Christmas overnight on January 6/7. This was recorded earlier in the evening at the Russian Cathedral in London. They also used to broadcast live from the same church the Easter Vigil services, running from midnight to around 3.30 a.m. These transmissions were picked up from the BBC Russian service. The introduction of "Through the Night" has blocked these transmissions in UK and as there are now live broadcasts of services within Russia (radio, TV and internet) the BBC no longer, I think, does them at all.

[Don Basilio]

Anna - the Orthodox do not keep Advent. It was probably the Christmas Eve Vigil: they don't have Midnight Mass.

The Saturday All Night Vigil (sic, 5 to 8.30) at Ennismore Gardens Russian Orthodox Cathedral knocks spots off Anglican Sung Evensong, and smells nicer too.

[jean]

R3 used to broadcast both the Christmas Vigil and the Easter Vigil from Ennismore Gardens. I have an idea that they stopped (but maybe continued on the World Service?) before Through the Night would have put a stop to them anyway.

Do they not include a Mass? I went once when I was living in London, but got a bit lost, frankly, especially when the liturgy seemd to come to a stop and everyone went round saying Hello to each other. In those days they really were at midnight.

Though it seems a bit ungrateful to say it, the choir weren't up to much, unfortunately.

[Anna]

No, it was the full Orthordox mass with Gregorian Chant, and wonderful basso profundo, lasted about 2 plus hours. Will have to plumb depths of computer. So, as you were!

[jean]

If it is an Orthodox service you're talking about, Anna, it wouldn't have included any Gregorian Chant.

But they certainly did broadcast the Orthodox Vigils from Ennismore Gardens - I remember it well!