Is madrigal singing dying?

[rauschwerk]

In 2002, Robert Hollingworth wrote, "Fifty years ago, long before early music became fashionable, English choirs and singing groups were regularly performing madrigals in concert. All these years later, despite the research into repertoire and sources, and the availability of cheap computer editions of early music, madrigals are less frequently sung and heard in concert than they used to be."

He's right, isn't he? Why do we hardly sing madrigals (English or Italian) any more? Is this a symptom of the 'death of singing' referred to in a another thread?

[mercia]

sorry not to answer your question directly, but just to say that when I was a boy treble (getting on for forty years ago), I was in a madrigal group at school and I absolutely loved it and still love the repertoire, though to be honest I only know English madrigals. The likes of The Silver Swan, Sweet Suffolk Owl and Though Amaryllis Dance in Green I think are absolute gems (and I should imagine great choral training). Mind you we had a very enlightened music department at school and I think it was considered quite cool (a word yet to be coined) to be in the school choir.

[jean]

Why do we hardly sing madrigals (English or Italian) any more? Is this a symptom of the 'death of singing' referred to in a another thread?

I don't think it's that, really.

I think they are not suitable for large or even medium-sized choirs, and one-to-a-part is challenging for even the most accomplished amateurs, so they have suffered from the fact that professional groups (like RH's I Fagiolini) do them so much better.

I prefer early sacred music anyway, so I don't regret the fact that the Renaissance Music Group of Liverpool rarely performs any secular music, and in the workshops arranged by the Early Music Fora that I've taken part in - some directed by RH himself - it's always sacred music.

What did he say in his next sentence?

[Mary Chambers]

I can't answer the question directly either, but like hercule I love English madrigals, and I'm very grateful that I've had the opportunity to sing them in the past. Perhaps they are more fun to sing than to listen to? Is it possible that to some they have the same image as morris dancing?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

He's right, isn't he? Why do we hardly sing madrigals (English or Italian) any more? Is this a symptom of the 'death of singing' referred to in a another thread?

I suspect it is related to the decline in singing. We had a very good madrigal group at school, but I know it doesn't exist now. The influences of popular music was very strong in the 1960s, but now the likes of Simon Cowle have taken over almost completely.

[rauschwerk]

What did he say in his next sentence?

"The initimacy of much of the English repertoire is, however, wonderfully suited to the medium of recording..." (this was written in a CD booklet).

As for madrigals being "more fun to sing than to listen to", I don't think it has to be that way. With my own octet, I gave a concert of 16th century English secular music, including lots of madrigals, near here (within the walls of the ruined leper chapel at Dunwich, to be precise) a few years ago and we had the audience absolutely captivated. One just has to choose the madrigals carefully.

[jean]

I suspect it is related to the decline in singing.

But when did this decline start?

It can't be the explanation anyway, because the people who DO sing don't sing madrigals much - not in public, anyway. And In London forty years ago I sang with several early music groups and even then, our concerts never included madrigals.

[jean]

"The initimacy of much of the English repertoire is, however, wonderfully suited to the medium of recording..." (this was written in a CD booklet).

I agree with that!

As for madrigals being "more fun to sing than to listen to", I don't think it has to be that way. With my own octet, I gave a concert of 16th century English secular music

Ah - your octet! Then you must be very good. I can't think of many amateur singers who could stand up to such exposure, or that I'd want to listen to.

[hmvman]

One of my fellow choir members sings madrigals with a group of friends. I get the impression, though, that they sing in private for enjoyment's sake and don't give public performances.

[jean]

Madrigal singing would always have had a hard job surviving its treatment in Kingsley Amis's Lucky Jim.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

But when did this decline start?

It can't be the explanation anyway, because the people who DO sing don't sing madrigals much - not in public, anyway. And In London forty years ago I sang with several early music groups and even then, our concerts never included madrigals.

As I understand it, madrigals were never intended for performance. They were sung for the enjoyment of the people involved. That doesn't mean they can't be performed, but as you say, even 40 years ago, performances may well have been thin on the ground. As for when singing began to decline, I would place it at around 1975, not long after Professor John Paynter urged schools to become composing mad. His intentions were good, but the side effects were horrendous.

[rauschwerk]

As I understand it, madrigals were never intended for performance. They were sung for the enjoyment of the people involved.

Not sure about that. Joseph Kerman, in his important book on the English madrigal, says nothing about performance practice. Some suppose that the Triumphs of Oriana, at least, would have been sung in public, and by a chorus. Italian madrigals - more difficult - were intended for performance by professionals.

[ostuni]

Some suppose that the Triumphs of Oriana, at least, would have been sung in public, and by a chorus.

Yes to the 'public' bit, but why any more than one-to-a-part?

[rauschwerk]

Ah - your octet! Then you must be very good. I can't think of many amateur singers who could stand up to such exposure, or that I'd want to listen to.

Try this (hope the link works!) http://www.sendspace.com/file/nbj0mk

That was recorded in 1980 when we were a quintet

[jean]

Yes to the 'public' bit...

But what sort of public performance existed for secular music in the sixteenth century?

There were no concert halls as we know them.