CE King's College, Cambridge [L] Wed, 14th June 2023

[Vox Humana]

At what point along the continuum from straightforward to complex should the Versicles and Responses lie?.

Perhaps it's just me, but I wonder whether there is a tendency not to give them much thought: "Let's get them out of the way as quickly as possible so we can get on with the real meat of Evensong." Perhaps Howells makes us ponder words that perhaps we sweep away too readily? If they seem out of proportion, is it our sense of proportion that needs adjusting? I don't begrudge the extra time they take.

[Guest]

Perhaps it's just me, but I wonder whether there is a tendency not to give them much thought: "Let's get them out of the way as quickly as possible so we can get on with the real meat of Evensong." Perhaps Howells makes us ponder words that perhaps we sweep away too readily? If they seem out of proportion, is it our sense of proportion that needs adjusting? I don't begrudge the extra time they take.

What an excellent, thought-provoking comment! Totally agree.

[Pulcinella]

What an excellent, thought-provoking comment! Totally agree.

Apologies for ignorance (as I'm sure I could find out myself): which came first, Howells or Rose?
I would imagine that the initial reaction to the Rose set was fairly interesting.

[Vox Humana]

Apologies for ignorance (as I'm sure I could find out myself): which came first, Howells or Rose?
I would imagine that the initial reaction to the Rose set was fairly interesting.

Rose = 1961
Howells = 1967

[Pulcinella]

Rose = 1961
Howells = 1967

At the risk of veering off topic (maybe we need a Versicles and Responses thread), was the Rose set then the first 'modern' one?

[Vox Humana]

(maybe we need a Versicles and Responses thread)

That might not be a bad idea. I have several settings in my archives that were published, but I have never ever seen anyone perform. Has anyone ever sung John Gardner's responses? Or Bernard Naylor's? I think they all post-date Rose. I'll have to check. And Rose wrote more than one set.

[ardcarp]

The only 20th century sets of Responses which come to mind and which might pre-date the above are those by Radcliffe (frequently done) and those for ATTB by William Harris which I guess are earlier. We used to sing those occasionally at the weekly men-only service....but it was more often plainsong. It's quite difficult to find the dates of Preces and Responses as they often aren't included in a composer's oeuvres.

One wonders if the likes of Stanford or Wood ever wrote a set? Or maybe it wasn't 'the done thing' at the time. There's a Musical Times article (c.1920!) about Preces and Responses, but only the first couple of pages seem to be available online: https://www.jstor.org/stable/908149
I think you have to do the dreaded signing-in (passwords, etc) to read more. Life's too short!