Tenebrae ... Bach to MacMillan

[ardcarp]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001kyt7

I enjoyed the Bach motets.

[DracoM]

.......and Macmillan is not even in the same universe.

[jonfan]

.......and Macmillan is not even in the same universe.

I’m sure he would be the first to agree.
Hearing Tenebrae sing this programme in Leeds on Saturday.

[RichardB]

.......and Macmillan is not even in the same universe.

But the problem is that he is in the same universe. If JMcM's music were as profound and original a response to its own time and place as Bach's, the two could reflect meaningfully on each other, but it isn't.

[DracoM]

Agreed.

[Master Jacques]

But the problem is that he is in the same universe. If JMcM's music were as profound and original a response to its own time and place as Bach's, the two could reflect meaningfully on each other, but it isn't.

This raises many questions in my mind, not least one I often ponder - as to why Bach became sainted in the 20th century, the one composer to whom obeisance is paid, even by people who don't otherwise have space in their busy lives for what they call "classical music".

More to the point, it does seem strange to assume that a staunch 18th century Lutheran might have any reflective ground with a militant 21st century Roman Catholic. It's hardly the same religion. In the event, I found the Macmillan absorbing and beautiful, if occasionally self-righteous; and I was grateful to simply listen to a video concert without intrusive chat from Petroc, Katie or one of the other talking heads which normally gets between us and music on BBC TV.

[jonfan]

If JMcM's music were as profound and original a response to its own time and place as Bach's, the two could reflect meaningfully on each other, but it isn't.

I’m amazed you have come to this strong stance. MacMillan attempts, and in my view often succeeds, in expressing his Christian faith through the music he writes which is as chorally original as anyone else is writing today IMHO. He could agree with Bach, who wrote in the margin of his Bible, Where there is devotional music, God with his Grace is always present.

[vinteuil]

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... I find MacMillan shallow and derivative. Worse, he is boring

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[eighthobstruction]

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... I find MacMillan shallow and derivative. Worse, he is boring

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.....well yes, and i hear Tupperware is going out of business

[vinteuil]

.....well yes, and i hear Tupperware is going out of business

... ah, tupperware - now that was useful


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[eighthobstruction]

... ah, tupperware - now that was useful


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....brilliant use of the italic there....(the forum font; not quite up to it...)....

[Serial_Apologist]

... ah, tupperware - now that was useful


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And the first person to claim Grace was a dish will be expelled from the forum and forced to run away with the spoon.

[vinteuil]

And the first person to claim Grace was a dish will be expelled from the forum and forced to run away with the spoon.

... I think she got there first - we called her prevenient Grace

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[jonfan]

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... I find MacMillan shallow and derivative. Worse, he is boring

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Derivative of whom?
His Strathclyde Motets are just the thing to challenge a good, committed church choir that’s up for it. Then there’s music written for professionals, the likes of Tenebrae and the Sixteen. A performance of Christus Vincit at Trinity College, Cambridge still resonates with me and can be found on the choir’s website. Maybe his music sounds best when part of a service rather than in a concert situation.

[RichardB]

I’m amazed you have come to this strong stance. MacMillan attempts, and in my view often succeeds, in expressing his Christian faith through the music he writes which is as chorally original as anyone else is writing today IMHO.

I don't find the idea of a 21st century composer expressing their Christian faith a particularly interesting one. I can see my way to Messiaen's faith-based music because it's articulated in such a way that his sense of awe before the mysteries of time, eternity and (what he would call) creation can set up resonances and indeed enlightenment far beyond the specifics of his own faith. But MacMillan is not operating on that level, as a result of which the faith expressed in his work seems parochial and anachronistic. Apart from that, I don't have anything to add to Vinteuil's pithy assessment.