Having thought I wouldn't be around to listen, I was. May have just been me but the whole thing left me totally unmoved for some reason ....
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I like the music but cannot understand how with modern understanding a university college can come out with the same nonsense as in the middle ages.Originally posted by S H Otley View PostComment
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Yes the organ was very much ahead of the congregation which at one point seemed to lead to that “Land of My fathers” phenomenon often heard in Cardiff where one section of the crowd is half a bar in front - creating ,shall we say , interesting tone clusters.Originally posted by Petrushka View PostComment
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Originally posted by S H Otley View Post
I’m strangely pleased it wasn’t just me… I listened afterwards to some of the two live albums of the SJC Advent services (culled from a selection of BBC broadcasts 2008 - 2019, it appears) which are available on Qobuz, and found them considerably more rewarding… Like you, I’m not sure why."...the isle is full of noises,
Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."
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I thought yesterday's service just as 'moving' as previous ones. But I didn't like so many of the carols, especially the new ones; it would be a pity if it became a showcase for new music at the expense of the traditional carols. Maybe that's why SH O. and others were unmoved.
I was grateful for 'Adam lay ybounden' in Peter Warlock's setting, better I think than Boris Ord's usually sung at another place up the road .Comment
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I like the Ord, but possibly Warlock does it for me a bit more.
Does anyone ever do Robert Walker's setting? https://open.spotify.com/track/5hsAE...urce=copy-linkComment
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I will listen properly later as I was getting ready to go out.
I did wonder if the organist had much experience of playing hymns in a large congregation.
Can’t help thinking AN has chosen the right time to move on with just a hint of staleness creeping into Advent proceedings. He has been an outstanding director IMHO.Comment
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I hope to catch up later (though it's a busy week, with a school day trip tomorrow and arrangements to sort out for a Thursday rehearsal and Saturday concert, as well as busking sessions in December), but I'm interested in some of the comments here, which reflect my experience in York Minster yesterday.
Curiously not quite as moving for me as last year's, but that could be for two reasons: last year was very special, with it being the first big (post-Covid) service I'd been at, but also just now God (if there is one) is not in my good books (brother in law seriously ill and in an induced coma after suffering an aneurysm on holiday in Spain).
Yes: we DID have Hills of the North (the other hymns being Hark, what a sound; O come, o come, Emmanuel; and Lo, he comes). Helmsley was printed in G in the service booklet, but certainly that was not the key we sang it in. No idea why: my first thought was that so it flowed naturally into the organ voluntary immediately following (JSB's Wachet auf), but no. The hymns were too slow!
The seven antiphons were performed separately, by the Ebor Singers, in the Choir or Lady Chapel (not sure which), giving a sense of ethereal space being used to good effect. There were seven readings, and a fair amount of Sarum Chant, as the choir processed round the minster from darkness at the west end into their final positions, with everyone in the congregation having a candle that got lit as the choir reached their part of the building: in that sense, the effect was quite magical.
The other music was
Advent responsory (Palestrina, arr Willcocks)
Adam lay ybounden (Ord)
Never weather-beaten sail (Shephard)
A spotless rose (Howells)
Hosanna to the son of David (Weelkes)
People look East (Besançon carol, arr Ferguson)
Joseph was an old man (Trad, arr Cleobury)
O Radiant Dawn (MacMillan)
Apologies for being somewhat off topic, but I thought it worth mentioning what happened elsewhere.Comment
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Contrary to many opinions above, I loved the SJC service. One only has to compare the sophistication of the choir (phrasing, dynamics and a certain je ne sais quoi) to many others to wonder how Nethsingha does it. I can understand criticisms of (a) too much 'modern' repertory and (b) organ hymn accompaniment.
(a) All wonderful pieces, Wasn't 'Nova' by Iain Farrington good fun? (Sorry, Draco.) It should go down as a future favourite. I can agree that maybe a couple more trad carols would have pleased some, eg Cherry Tree, The Joys of Mary, etc, etc.
(b) The congregational accompaniment was all a bit loud (it sounded like full Great and Swell much of the time). It may have been the organist's understandable need to keep a large congregation in time. Maybe the problem lay here:
The 'too much organ' would be my only personal niggle....but not when accompanying the choir. Perfection.I know congregations can drag a hymn backwards but they sounded over-rushed here. I do have a preference for slower hymn singing and wonder why everyone seems in such a confounded hurry these days. The service ended with three or so minutes to spare so there was no need for any hurry.*
* But it did have the advantage of a bit of Angela Hewitt!Last edited by ardcarp; 28-11-22, 12:01.Comment
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Much further back than the Middle Ages, to the Dawn of Time itself when Wisdom was all that existed. (Whatever happened to that?)Originally posted by Frances_iom View PostComment
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O Sapientia.
Q. How many Oxford dons does it take to change a light bulb?
A. Change ???!!!!Comment
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This, I fear, may put the cat among the musical pigeons - but I'll say it just the same, in the hope that someone might see some sense in it !
Hymn singing. You're in the congregation - could be in a large Cathedral, a Collegiate chapel, or a small or large church - and you are expected to, and want to, join in the hymns.
How do you know when to start singing each verse ? (remembering that before you sing, you have to take a breath). Like many around you, you're not musically trained, so you don't count a certain number of beats between the verses.
Answer: you wait for the organ to play the first note of each verse, you breathe, and then you set off - usually rushing madly to keep up with the first line, which is well on the way and nearly out of reach before you even begin !
No, it's not a long gathering note, but merely an awareness by organists and MD's that this is what happens in a congregation - so why not be aware of that, and give them a millisecond at the start of each verse ?Comment
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Makes perfect sense Barry.
I found that approach worked at my last church, where l played for 28 years, and that the regular congregation got used to my way of playing and were pretty unanimous in starting verses.Comment
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Quite so, Barry. I think what you might be hinting is that a DoM should perhaps desist from starting the choir off on each verse of a hymn as if he/she were conducting a choir-only piece. Many an organist is caught between doing what he sees in the mirror and the millisecond delay from a big congregatin.Comment
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I think what you might be hinting is that a DoM should perhaps desist from starting the choir off on each verse of a hymn as if he/she were conducting a choir-only piece.
YES! You know that, S.H.Otley does, I do, but do those DOM's we hear on these radio Services know that ? - or are they prepared to listen - and learn ?.....
If it's of any help or encouragement, one of the first things I did when I took over the choir at St. Paul's was to announce to the Vicars Choral that we would no longer count a prescribed number of beats betweem the verses of hymns (their hymnals were littered with 3 plus 3, 4 plus 2, etc., etc). As I said to them 'just imagine you're in the congregation at the back of the dome and want to start singing the next verse; that way we'll all begin together'.
And we did !Comment
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