A Service for Advent with Carols 27.xi.2022 [L]

[Philip]

I haven't listened to the whole thing, but followed this discussion with some interest, particularly as regards the hymns. I didn't think the organ was particularly ahead, but I thought the pace of the hymns somewhat brave for a full chapel, especially Cross of Jesus with its moving parts in the harmonies. I think perhaps that might have been the issue.

Don't forget that George Herbert, the Organ Scholar, ended up conducting last year's broadcast service when Andrew Nethsinga came down with Covid!

[Petrushka]

This, I fear, may put the cat among the musical pigeons - but I'll say it just the same, in the hope that someone might see some sense in it !
Hymn singing. You're in the congregation - could be in a large Cathedral, a Collegiate chapel, or a small or large church - and you are expected to, and want to, join in the hymns.
How do you know when to start singing each verse ? (remembering that before you sing, you have to take a breath). Like many around you, you're not musically trained, so you don't count a certain number of beats between the verses.
Answer: you wait for the organ to play the first note of each verse, you breathe, and then you set off - usually rushing madly to keep up with the first line, which is well on the way and nearly out of reach before you even begin !
No, it's not a long gathering note, but merely an awareness by organists and MD's that this is what happens in a congregation - so why not be aware of that, and give them a millisecond at the start of each verse ?

As a treble, then tenor, in a lowly parish church choir in the 1960s and 70s, this is what we used to do and my old choirmaster (ex Francis Jackson pupil) would be nodding in agreement if he was still here.

The modern fashion for belting through the hymns as if they are something to be got over with asap is something I greatly dislike. I was singing along to the hymns yesterday and found exactly the problem that Barry mentions. I also temporarily lost my place in one hymn (I forget which).

[DracoM]

[Guest]

Maybe an argument for not conducting hymns but leave it to the organist to lead? I remember Martin How (RIP) starting a rehearsal for a combined choirs evensong at my then church with the hymn "The head that once was crowned with thorns". He gave the note, then said "v.1 unison, v.2 harmony" Started us off unaccompanied and walked down the church to listen. He then stopped us after v 2 and said "Thank you! Just wanted to know what gap you want between verses!" He led the hymns unconducted from the organ..

[Vox Humana]

The modern fashion for belting through the hymns as if they are something to be got over with asap is something I greatly dislike.

Hear, hear. Perhaps I'm naive, but I've always thought that, if you have a building full of people who have never had a singing lesson in their life, but are rearing to sing their hearts out, you are doing them no favours by hurrying them along as if you want to get to the pub before it shuts. It may feel ever so virtuous, but the belief that stately speeds are inherently unmusical and encourage dragging is simply wrong-headed. It's actually fast speeds that encourage dragging: the untrained masses in the nave won't be able to keep up, or give it their best. Whatever happened to grandeur and nobility in our hymns? Is it really so out of fashion? Admittedly there is a point at which slow speeds can tip over into lethargy, but it's the organist's job to marshall the hordes by rhythmical playing. It's sloppy organ playing that is the worst enemy of the lot. I have heard some really ridiculously fast hymn speeds. The worst was an unedifying rendition RWV's 'Sine nomine' from Songs of Praise that was so fast that it left the congregation completely behind. It's somewhere on YouTube and I wish I could relocate it to quote as a terrible warning, but I can't.

[Nick Armstrong]

York gives us Hills of the North, rejoice (Little Conrad): not one of my favourites, though I can't really say why. Maybe it's that leap of a tenth!

So do Merton, Oxford!

This is worth catching up with.

https://youtu.be/4KsAgixwI7Q?t=1552

… at around 50:40



Wonderful!

[ardcarp]

I bit of inside info. Apparently Iain Farrington was asked by Andrew Nethsingha to provide the carol Nova to give the choristers something to liven up the Advent music. Iain himself spent 20 mins with the choir rehearsing it, and even made a couple of minor changes as a result.

This bit probably doesn't belong on The Choir, but the very versatile Iain Farrington was also commissioned to write Party with Auntie which was to have been performed at the cancelled Last Night of the Proms. It is a medley of well-known BBC-programme theme-tunes to celebrate the BBC's 100th anniversary.

Spot the tunes:

https://www.iainfarrington.com/a-party-with-auntie.html

[DracoM]

Interesting insights,