CE St Ann’s Church, Manchester [L] Wed, April 6th 2022

[MSM69]

Excellent MSM. Glad to hear it.

Really enjoyed the CE today, with T+Bs that surely any cathedral/college would covet. Psalms and diction excellent. Whilst I think Sumsion's Canticles in G are his best, I felt that the Bairstow anthem was not an inspired choice. Surely something less saccharine would have highlighted the choir's abilities better? Be that as it may, the choir was clearly directed with great care, with attention to matching vowel sounds and sensitive phrasing. Do I gather some folk from St Martin in the Fields were involved too?

PS Is anyone able to post up some details of the organ at St Ann's church? I've drawn a blank.

https://www.npor.org.uk/NPORView.html?RI=E00255

[Barry Rose]

My posts in this forum are thankfully (for some) rare - though that does not mean that I've wanted to write many times !
Driving a rainy M25 and M3 during Wednesday's broadcast was not ideal conditions for listening, so I sat down to listen again this afternoon, in peace and quiet.
What comes to mind is how broadcast Choral Evensong has changed over the years, and is neither 'fish nor fowl'. Should we, for instance, just accept that a psalm for the day - in this case 33 - is dropped, because, it seems, the inclusion of a second anthem/prayer makes that necessary? I was there, at the BBC, when we (the Controller of Radio 3 and myself) lengthened the transmission from 45 minutes to an hour, with the condition that the programme included the psalms for the day, and the organ voluntary in its entirety - I think this was a reaction to protests after Radio 3 had ceased to feature regular organ recitals.
The feeling I get about the programme - and not just today - is that we are listening to a broadcast performance rather than an Act of Worship, and that may be unfair and will probably excite a lot of adverse comments being thrown my way. It was always the ethos of the programme that we would be eavesdropping on a Service, ie.being there as a member of the congregation, and part of that effect was as the organ always played under the opening announcement and the listener was 'entering the building', as you would hear at any weekday Evensong.
And where, can anyone tell me, does or did a weekday Evensong end with a final Blessing, rather than the Grace at the end of the Intercessions ?
Timing is so important in live transmissions, but today we couldn't even savour the ending of the psalms or Magnificat before being told what the next Lesson was. And as for 'Save us, O Lord' - come on Ardcarp, you may have sung it too many times, but that doesn't make it a bad choice. If my memory is correct, Sir Edward wrote it for a local choir festival whilst he was at Wigan Parish Church - the right scale of music for the right forces in that place, and that doesn't make it any less worthy than 'Blessed City', written I think for the grandeur of York Minster. I think I must have done 'Save us, O Lord over 100 times, but it's still my very favourite piece of all time when I'm doing it. My only regret is that so many singers, organists, (and choir directors) don't, or won't, think like that.
I'll now retire and don my suit of armour......

[ardcarp]

Good to hear from you Barry. More often please? Let's leave aside the Bairstow piece which I know many people love...and I did end "One man's meat. etc"

May I discuss two main points in your post?

1. That the psalms appointed are often cut. Many will agree that we should get the full psalmody for the day. Including me. And I'm very glad you were instrumental in getting the CE broadcast increased to one hour. It used to make me sad when, in he old 45-minute days, the ending voluntary was cut or faded.

2. Act of worship or recital. Of course CE should be an act of worship. However I'm sure you appreciate that any choral foundation will want to put its best foot forward. It would be good to think that the 'wet Thursday afternoon' principle might apply. But can you blame any DoM for doing a bit of extra rehearsal for what is, let's admit it, a special occasion? The thing for me that makes broadcast CE less like a 'normal' act of worship is when the celebrant talks too much, saying extra-liturgical things that are certainly not pertinent to an everyday act of worship.

I'm glad you said at one point in your post 'and that may be unfair', because I'm sure you didn't intend a swipe at the HeartEdge choral scholars. I don't know a lot about this scheme, but it sounds to me like a very Good Thing to encourage young people from 'oop North' to have similar opportunities to Oxbridge choral scholars.

[Keraulophone]

that doesn't make it any less worthy than 'Blessed City', written I think for the grandeur of York Minster.

Although its large scale and huge dynamic range might imply otherwise, the score of Blessed City is headed:

To the choirs of All Saints and Heaton Parish Churches, Bradford.

[Miles Coverdale]

Here are a few reasons why, I think, an hour-long broadcast of Choral Evensong is almost bound to end up feeling like a performance rather than a service.

1 Even the 'best' cathedral choirs now get on Radio 3 about once every 18 months or so, perhaps less often than that. Is the director really going to put down 'average' weekday afternoon repertoire? That seems rather unlikely, unless you like really long voluntaries.

2 No more than a dozen cathedrals still sing the psalms for the day as a matter of course, so for the rest it's out of the ordinary and more of a 'performance' than what they normally do.

3 When I was a lay clerk, I don't remember a weekday Evensong lasting anywhere near an hour, even the 15th Evening. OK, we weren't doing an introit or an office hymn, but who does with any regularity? Not many places, I'll bet (see #2). So, to fill the hour, you have to add a quick Te Deum, a second anthem etc.

As an aside, I remember a story that when he was at Christ Church, Oxford, Francis Grier put down Byrd's Great Service and Bach's Jesu meine Freude on the 15th Evening. Evensong allegedly took an hour and 20 minutes, and the Dean was very cross because he missed his dinner (mind you, so did the choral scholars).

I've heard the 'my favourite piece is the one I'm doing at that moment' argument many times, but I've never found it persuasive. Bach's Christmas Oratorio is not going to be displaced from my affections merely by putting a copy of Stanford's Ye choirs of new Jerusalem in front of me. That's not to say that I wouldn't try and sing the Stanford as well as I could, no matter how much I wanted to burn it (and that was a lot, believe me), but I'm not going to pretend it was my favourite.

[ardcarp]

Mrs A and I had to go to Winchester a few weeks ago for family reasons. To make the most of it we stayed in the Wykeham Arms overnight, having attended the shortest evensong ever. Boys and men...in and out in 25 minutes. We felt slightly short-changed!

[Vox Humana]

I have to agree with pretty much everything that Barry said above. The Bairstow is one of my favourite anthems, but only when it's done sympathetically. I just know that most people here are going to disagree with me, but IMO almost all performances that you hear these days fail to get the best out of the music because they are all far too hurried. So it's little wonder if the singers can't warm to the piece. For me, at any rate, it only really hits the spot when the interpretation is calm and serene, as befits the words. This is the only performance I could find on YouTube at the right speed, but even here the poch. piu mosso is too unsubtle (the clue is in the 'poch.'): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIKFu1kbeVE

You'll gather that I didn't much care for the Bairstow in this Evensong, but overall I did enjoy the service very much indeed and thought the singing first rate.

[Triforium]

I've heard the 'my favourite piece is the one I'm doing at that moment' argument many times, but I've never found it persuasive. Bach's Christmas Oratorio is not going to be displaced from my affections merely by putting a copy of Stanford's Ye choirs of new Jerusalem in front of me. That's not to say that I wouldn't try and sing the Stanford as well as I could, no matter how much I wanted to burn it (and that was a lot, believe me), but I'm not going to pretend it was my favourite.

But surely this expression refers to the singers convincing the listeners, not themselves.

[ardcarp]

I have to agree with pretty much everything that Barry said above. The Bairstow is one of my favourite anthems, but only when it's done sympathetically. I just know that most people here are going to disagree with me, but IMO almost all performances that you hear these days fail to get the best out of the music because they are all far too hurried. So it's little wonder if the singers can't warm to the piece. For me, at any rate, it only really hits the spot when the interpretation is calm and serene, as befits the words. This is the only performance I could find on YouTube at the right speed, but even here the poch. piu mosso is too unsubtle (the clue is in the 'poch.'): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIKFu1kbeVE

You'll gather that I didn't much care for the Bairstow in this Evensong, but overall I did enjoy the service very much indeed and thought the singing first rate.

This opens up a much wider discussion about speeds. The over-fast rendition of much Baroque music seems to be a current fashion...not from everyone....but maybe the trend is creeping into all genres. I agree Vox, that the speed of the clip you found from Edinburgh lends the piece much more of its intended end-of-the-day peace and tranquility.....and surprisingly it sounds less saccharine.

[jonfan]

But surely this expression refers to the singers convincing the listeners, not themselves.

This is surely right and not only for vocal music. I impress upon my piano pupils that the piece they are playing needs to be their favourite at the time of performance in order to convey the composer's wishes.
Referring to choral music again - in the same service our church choir will perform, and enjoy performing, music by Kendrick, Townend, Stainer, Byrd and Mozart, hoping to convey the various composers' intentions to the congregation to the best of our ability.

[Rolmill]

Mrs A and I had to go to Winchester a few weeks ago for family reasons. To make the most of it we stayed in the Wykeham Arms overnight, having attended the shortest evensong ever. Boys and men...in and out in 25 minutes. We felt slightly short-changed!

I hope the Wykeham Arms was comfortable, as we're spending three nights there at the end of this month. We're hoping to get to Sunday evensong - I trust your slight disappointment was in the quantity rather than the quality of what was offered!

[Vox Humana]

I agree Vox, that the speed of the clip you found from Edinburgh lends the piece much more of its intended end-of-the-day peace and tranquility.....and surprisingly it sounds less saccharine.

Thank you, Ardcarp. I'm pleased that you found it less saccharine at the slower speed: I thought that was just me! I totally agree about the speed of Baroque music too. I'm afraid I can't listen to modern performances these days. It's a subject that perplexes me. There seems to be a lot of evidence that speeds in days of the First Viennese School were very fast indeed (e.g. timings; early metronome marks), but the results seem to me artistically non-sensical and I seriously doubt that those early players were that virtuosic. And did Bach really lavish such subtlety on his harmony only for it to be thrown away in breakneck performances? I really don't get it.

[ardcarp]

I hope the Wykeham Arms was comfortable, as we're spending three nights there at the end of this month. We're hoping to get to Sunday evensong - I trust your slight disappointment was in the quantity rather than the quality of what was offered!

Wykeham Arms was great. Quite an 'old fashioned' feel to it...in a good way. The food was terrific...I think they have a quite well-known chef there.
As for CE, quality excellent if not the quantity. They sang a 'short service' by some Tudor or Jacobean composer...and it was very short! So short I've forgotten the details. It was almost as if everyone, choir+clergy, had an important meeting to attend. This isn't usual I'm sure.

[mw963]

I can sum up my reaction to Barry's post with the simple words:

"It's a great pity you are no longer in charge of the BBC's CE effort".

I might add that the fact that Cathedral relays are now the exception rather than the rule, and the fact that so many of the "other" broadcasts sound more like polished concert performances, means I'm regularly forgetting to tune in at all. And as CE is (or rather was) the only programme I listened to on Radio 3, having been driven away right back in 1992 by Kenyon's Act of Vandalism, it now means I can honestly say that I am no longer a Radio 3 listener. Quite an achievement on the part of Auntie.....

And it's a pity so many on here always feel that composers like Bairstow (or indeed Stanford) are "fair game" for a regular pop. And yet if I dare to say I can't abide Leighton, for some reason the sky falls on my head (including from you Ardcarp!).

Right, that's me off into the quiet corner again for a few months.

[DracoM]

<< Cathedral relays are now the exception rather than the rule >>
If so, then.....why so?