CE Sacred Trinity Church, Salford [R] Wed, Dec 15th 2021

**cat** · 10-12-21, 13:29

It seems to be the first broadcast for both church and choir?

**jonfan** · 10-12-21, 15:29

This is an initiative instigated by St-Martin-in-the-Fields; more information above.
Looking forward to sharing in the service; no doubt the Religion Dept of the BBC being nearby is a help to getting a spot on CE.

**DracoM** · 15-12-21, 10:35

Reminder: today @ 4 p.m.

**ardcarp** · 15-12-21, 18:32

One cannot but admire the project: to give choral scholarships 'oop North' and maybe balance out the London and Oxbridge opportunities. Does anyone know how it is funded?

Personally, while I congratulate the small group on their delivery of this CE, the repertoire was surely chosen to be 'safe'? Couldn't we have had something a bit more adventurous than Sumsion, Chilcott and other bits and pieces whose musical language was, well, ordinary? A new, young and vibrant choir maybe needed something on which to stamp their individuality? I'm not expressing my thoughts very well, perhaps, but that's how this CE left me feeling.

While I'm at it, I'll air a few more bugbears:

1.Sumsion...a dull composer IMHO, though probably much admired by some Choir forumistas. Having said that, Sumsion in A was written for a trad cathedral choir, acoustic and organ...Gloucester I guess....but there are numerous settings that would have displayed this group's talents better.

2.Too much extra-liturgical chat from the presiding priest. Do we need an explanation of the thoughts behind everything, when CE is a minor art-form in itself and not to be tampered with? (I said this was personal!) Even 'handbells which we have not got.'

3. A Spotless Rose, in the above's words, was "much arranged". Did he mean 'arranged' as in a tune being set differently, or did he mean 'a text set by many'. If he meant the latter, I can't immediately think of anyone else but Howells...but are there loads of settings out there?

Rant over.

**DracoM** · 15-12-21, 18:49

<< One cannot but admire the project: to give choral scholarships 'oop North' and maybe balance out the London and Oxbridge opportunities.>>

Hear, hear!!
And truly worth the listen.
Many thx.

**haldeman** · 15-12-21, 19:07

Completely agree with the comment above. Seems like worthy project and its good to know that the Church Commissioners Strategic Development Fund is being used for at least one project which draws on the best cultural traditions of the CofE. There were some nice moments from the choir - most notably in the Chilcott - but the organ and building are not well suited to rep like Sumsion in A. The unnecessary and irritating clergy input - increasingly common in CE broadcasts - really ought to get stamped out by the producer.

**daktari** · 15-12-21, 20:45

I like a bit of performer innovation and -aspiration, even if the liturgical repertoire was seen as safe (which for me often is a recommendation). I really enjoyed this broadcast, despite the curtailment of the psalmody, and found that Sumsion benefited from a smaller acoustic. I have often wondered how Andrew Earis combines his activities upnorth with his responsibilities at St Martin-in-the-Fields: he must have his dedicated seat on the Euston to Piccadilly express. Hearing the Fuga sopra il Magnificat (BWV 733) reminded me what beautiful music this is. I have now dug out the performance on the wonderful Schnitger organ of St Jacobi in Hamburg which I had hoped to hear in the flesh again earlier this month until COVID messed up my travel plans - to listen to it again - and again.

**ardcarp** · 15-12-21, 21:36

daktari, I read your post thinking Euston to Picadilly wasn't very far....but realised Manchester has a Picadilly too. (Sorry, I'm just an ignorant Southerner.)

**Frances_iom** · 15-12-21, 23:55

Originally posted by ardcarp View Post

daktari, I read your post thinking Euston to Picadilly wasn't very far....but realised Manchester has a Picadilly too. (Sorry, I'm just an ignorant Southerner.)

Well the pre modernisation name of the Manchester station was Manchester London Road - topographically accurate unlike its new name.

**Magister Chori** · 16-12-21, 14:43

Originally posted by ardcarp View Post

One cannot but admire the project: to give choral scholarships 'oop North' and maybe balance out the London and Oxbridge opportunities. Does anyone know how it is funded?

Personally, while I congratulate the small group on their delivery of this CE, the repertoire was surely chosen to be 'safe'? Couldn't we have had something a bit more adventurous than Sumsion, Chilcott and other bits and pieces whose musical language was, well, ordinary? A new, young and vibrant choir maybe needed something on which to stamp their individuality? I'm not expressing my thoughts very well, perhaps, but that's how this CE left me feeling.

Couldn't agree more!

Originally posted by ardcarp View Post

1.Sumsion...a dull composer IMHO, though probably much admired by some Choir forumistas. Having said that, Sumsion in A was written for a trad cathedral choir, acoustic and organ...Gloucester I guess....but there are numerous settings that would have displayed this group's talents better.

I tend to like his music, but apart from personal tastes - which are legit - it's surely to be objectively acknowleged the fact that he was a fine craftman in the style of many cathedral organists of the past century. His music is effective and works well in many contexts, though written in a quite sparing manner, with a constant remarkable economy of material and of its treatment.

Originally posted by ardcarp View Post

3. A Spotless Rose, in the above's words, was "much arranged". Did he mean 'arranged' as in a tune being set differently, or did he mean 'a text set by many'. If he meant the latter, I can't immediately think of anyone else but Howells...but are there loads of settings out there?

Not certainly 'loads of settings', but we don't have only the Howells' one (though this is surely the finest): apart from the Chilcott which we heard yesterday, both Ola Gijelo and Paul Mealor also wrote two quite well known musical setting of this text. Amongst the composers of lesser known versions are to be found Becky McGlyde, Fredrik Sixten, Bryan Geer and Frank K. DeWald.

**jonfan** · 16-12-21, 23:09

Originally posted by haldeman View Post

The unnecessary and irritating clergy input - increasingly common in CE broadcasts - really ought to get stamped out by the producer.

Forum members who comment on CEs enjoy them in many different ways but the intention of the investment by the Church Commissioners is foremost to enhance worship, in this case in the Anglican Tradition. The clergy input today just right IMHO and informative [A Worship Song in CE!

'Longing for Light'] I found the service beautifully sung with great sensitivity; I especially enjoyed the Introit and the Responses [a delectable Lord's Prayer]. A gentle atmosphere pervaded - best wishes for the future in this initative.

**Keraulophone** · 18-12-21, 00:27

Mag.Chori: it’s Becky McGlade, local to here. We’re singing her ‘In the bleak’ tomorrow.

**Keraulophone** · 18-12-21, 12:22

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**northernorganis** · 19-12-21, 07:02

It was always my understanding that the choral evensong programme should be a snapshot of what each choir does regularly. Therefore, the clergy input was entirely appropriate. Both the HeartEdge scholars and St. Martin's scholars "Great Sacred Music" weekly liturgies are built around putting each piece of music sung in context with the theme, season or bible reading. These explanations would therefore not usually be necessary, but in this case paint a true picture of how the group functions.

CE Sacred Trinity Church, Salford [R] Wed, Dec 15th 2021

CE Sacred Trinity Church, Salford [R] Wed, Dec 15th 2021

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