A Christmas Carol

[ardcarp]

Has anyone come across this? (Should it be in Pedants' Corner?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxfxy-3dGz0

[Vox Humana]

Oh my, God!

[french frank]

Has anyone come across this? (Should it be in Pedants' Corner?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxfxy-3dGz0

If you put it after God 'ye' would surely have to be the equivalent of þe, mispronounced as in the frequent 'ye' for 'the' (e.g. Ye Olde Whatever), wouldn't it? Or did I misunderstand that bit?

[Petrushka]

Has anyone come across this? (Should it be in Pedants' Corner?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxfxy-3dGz0

This brings back memories, from over 50 years ago, of my old choirmaster who was insistent on the comma going after merry with the line carrying on without pause after 'gentlemen'. There are a few other such examples in well known Christmas carols/hymns where he was insistent on following the punctuation correctly. To this day, I still sing them exactly as he taught us though you do need to take a very deep breath to get to the end of the line in the second verse of 'While Shepherds Watched'!*

* 'Fear not, said he for mighty dread had seized their troubled mind'. People usually take a breath after 'dread' but you need to take it after 'not' otherwise you'll run out of puff before the end.

[french frank]

with the line carrying on without pause after 'gentlemen'

I don't think I would agree with him there. I would be inclined to put a semi colon, or even a colon, after 'gentlemen'.

[Vox Humana]

I remember some correspondence in the Musical Times half a century or so ago, in which a choirmaster mentioned that he insisted on the correct placing of this comma in 'O come, all ye faithful': 'Come and behold him born, the King of Angels'. Not too many years afterwards, I inherited a decent church choir. Facing our first Christmas, my insistence on this punctuation caused a few frowns. Carols for Choirs, which we were using, doesn't have a comma in this line and they were used to breathing after 'him'. A tenor came to my rescue, suggesting that Natum videte Regem angelorum can be translated as "Come and see the King of angels, who is born". Hymn books are quite undecided about this. The original Hymns Ancient and Modern (1861–1922) and A&M New Standard have the comma after 'born'. Hymns Ancient and Modern Revised, the 1906 English Hymnal and Songs of Praise place it after 'him' and the New English Hymnal and Common Praise agree with Carols for Choirs in not having one at all. What other, more modern collections do I don't know. I wonder what Oakley originally wrote? I suspect it was what we got in the 1861 A&M.

[ardcarp]

Exaggerated punctuation in hymns is one of my bêtes noires. But it does remind me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJiHlt8NRqk

[cloughie]

This brings back memories, from over 50 years ago, of my old choirmaster who was insistent on the comma going after merry with the line carrying on without pause after 'gentlemen'. There are a few other such examples in well known Christmas carols/hymns where he was insistent on following the punctuation correctly. To this day, I still sing them exactly as he taught us though you do need to take a very deep breath to get to the end of the line in the second verse of 'While Shepherds Watched'!*

* 'Fear not, said he for mighty dread had seized their troubled mind'. People usually take a breath after 'dread' but you need to take it after 'not' otherwise you'll run out of puff before the end.

)

Are you talking ‘Winchester Old’? With While Sheps the tune used may partly dictate the punctuation particularly when phrases are repeated.

[Petrushka]

)

Are you talking ‘Winchester Old’? With While Sheps the tune used may partly dictate the punctuation particularly when phrases are repeated.

Yes, it was 'Winchester Old'. Just going from memory (I was a choirboy) I think our choirmaster wanted the line to carry on into 'Glad tidings...' as well so you had to take a breath somewhere! Incidentally, he was an organ pupil of Francis Jackson and a personal friend of John Joubert.