Caroline Shaw's Partita for 8 voices

[ardcarp]

Is this the greatest choral composition for 50 years?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDVMtnaB28E

Incredibly original, and incredibly performed by Roomful of Teeth. So heartening after all the anodyne minimalism of recent years.

I'd love to hear opinions of others.

[Dave2002]

I don't know. Probably not - but I don't know much about this kind of music or the repertoire over the last 50 years.

It is interesting, and the first parts with the obvious deviations from standard scales are rather like some works I heard many years ago by a Pacific island group (maybe from Tuvalu) and mentioned on Record Review - which I've never been able to identify since. I think that there was a recording of the group on Island Records. Philip Glass also set some of the same words ! :-)

Read more about Caroline Shaw at https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...ita-kanye-west
and listen to string quartet music here - https://youtu.be/0yzFg2DRSRU

[ardcarp]

...and here's Caroline Shaw herself singing wit the Attacca Quartet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyDvnUYB0sk

Read more about Caroline Shaw at https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...ita-kanye-west

In the article, Ms Shaw is wary about defining herself solely as 'a composer'.
But hang on, Stravinsky, when asked what a composer does, replied something along the lines of "organising sounds". Yes indeed.

It has puzzled me that for at least the past 40 years, challenging stuff for singers has virtually disappeared into a miasma of boring triads with a few dissonant notes to show that 'it's modern' but little in the way of rhythmic interest. No doubt others will now quote examples showing that I am completely wrong. But the likes of The John Alldis Singers (then) and Exaudi (now) are heard less frequently than The 16, Voces 8, Polyphony, Stile Antico; all of which I admire enormously but which generally stick to a populist repertoire.

rather like some works I heard many years ago by a Pacific island group (maybe from Tuvalu) and mentioned on Record Review

Ooh do try and find out, Dave. I'd love to hear them!

[Miles Coverdale]

Is this the greatest choral composition for 50 years?

Not in my opinion, no. It certainly has some interesting ideas and textures, but it did end up slightly outstaying its welcome, so to speak. I ended up admiring the skill of the performers more than the piece itself. But it was a nice change from the 'look at all the pretty chords I can write' school of Eric Whitacre and his ilk.

[Bella Kemp]

I'm reminded of this - an old favourite that we used to perform at school:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx8AdSFqWOw&list=LL5WWM7v0oNIFPlBvLvgVm1A&index=2

[ardcarp]

Oh yes, Bella. Not done much these days?

But it was a nice change from the 'look at all the pretty chords I can write' school of Eric Whitacre and his ilk.

That is partly my point, Miles. But there is more to it beyond just the remarkable skill of the performers (e.g. excellent tuning and grabbing notes apparently from the aether). Some genuine creativity of thought there, I feel, and it doesn't outstay its welcome for me.
OTOH, Tavener's Song for Athene definitely does!!

[oddoneout]

I heard this a while ago, possibly on Inside Music or some such programme, and was rather taken with it. However I'm not sure I would want to listen to it very many times - there are some forms of novelty which for whatever reason just don't resonate with me and end up being irritating. Watching the video I found less satisfactory than just listening, although I imagine that being at a live performance could be rewarding.

[ardcarp]

Odders, one thing that does appeal to me is the variation in voice production, from pure head voice to harsher (very harsh?) tone. Also the variation in vowel sounds. Shaw's use of quarter-tones and glissandi is very innovative...especially as the choir is expected (and succeeds) in landing back perfectly in pitch each time. I know some very difficult contemporary music has to be sung with the performers having tuning forks concealed about their person. Not here.

[Serial_Apologist]

Were this to be harmonically more interesting, rather than merely adapting an eclection of avant garde and appropriated means of voice production techniques to standing conventions, however virtuosically, as if ticking boxes, I'd have stayed the course. Orlando Gough's group The Shout were doing this sort of thing in a more proclamatory, hard-edged sort of way 20 odd years ago, using a lot of Sprechstimme and body percussion along with it. It's a shame there's no youtube to be found of them.

[Dave2002]

...and here's Caroline Shaw herself singing wit the Attacca Quartet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyDvnUYB0sk

She does of course sing in the video which started this thread.

I'm not sure how many of the group indulged in what I think was throat singing - probably around 10 minutes in.

Ooh do try and find out, Dave. I'd love to hear them!

I've been trying to identify that CD or record for years - but it even pre-dated digital radio. It was very striking - with microtones and interesting swoops etc. - quite similar to what happened early on in Shaw's piece. I used to record some of the Record Review programs but even if I did record that one the tape probably got thrown away in one of our moves. I think it must have been in the 1980s.

[Richard Barrett]

Orlando Gough's group The Shout were doing this sort of thing in a more proclamatory, hard-edged sort of way 20 odd years ago, using a lot of Sprechstimme and body percussion along with it. It's a shame there's no youtube to be found of them.

Not to mention Meredith Monk's vocal ensemble, as in Dolmen Music (1981). Regarding choral compositions I've actually heard, which no doubt constitute a tiny subset of the repertoire, I think my favourites composed in the last 50 years are probably Stockhausen's Engel-Prozessionen from 2003 and the twelve compositions that make up Anthony Braxton's GTM (Syntax) series, completed in 2017. Otherwise, Xenakis' Nuits (1968), Kagel's Hallelujah (1969) and Ivo Malec's Dodecameron (1970) just fail to get into the timeframe. I don't find Caroline Shaw's piece particularly original or interesting.

[Joseph K]

I was not enamoured of the Shaw piece.

I don't have an extensive knowledge of choral pieces over the past 50 years to say the least, so I can't make any pronouncements like that, but I really like the choral sections (and not just them) of Ferneyhough's Shadowtime - i.e. The Doctrine of Similarity ('Salute' is incredible, but sounds more so in the context of the whole scene) some of Pools of Darkness and Stelae for Failed Time, though they do feature (other) instruments.

[Keraulophone]

I’ve just listened to the percussion finalist on Young Musician. My initial reaction to Partita is similar to the piece he played - the execution was more remarkable than the musical content. I’d prefer to listen to each piece again without vision before being tempted to indulge in critical judgements. In any case, I wouldn’t be able to answer the OP’s initial question.

[ardcarp]

I’ve just listened to the percussion finalist on Young Musician. My initial reaction to Partita is similar to the piece he played - the execution was more remarkable than the musical content. I’d prefer to listen to each piece again without vision before being tempted to indulge in critical judgements. In any case, I wouldn’t be able to answer the OP’s initial question.

Yes I just listened too and started a thread. (Couldn't find one on here surprisingly.) As usual. impossible to compare three different instrumentalists, all superb in their way. The percussion piece itself (the lad a worthy winner BTW.... so musical and very much in charge) was quite impressive I thought. Not so the oboe piece, which provided dazzling virtuoso bits for the player, but could best be described as mediocre film music.

The Ruth Gipps horn concerto was interesting. She was CotW a few weeks ago. She is a sort of post-cow-pat composer... in the best sense of course!

[Serial_Apologist]

Not to mention Meredith Monk's vocal ensemble, as in Dolmen Music (1981). Regarding choral compositions I've actually heard, which no doubt constitute a tiny subset of the repertoire, I think my favourites composed in the last 50 years are probably Stockhausen's Engel-Prozessionen from 2003 and the twelve compositions that make up Anthony Braxton's GTM (Syntax) series, completed in 2017. Otherwise, Xenakis' Nuits (1968), Kagel's Hallelujah (1969) and Ivo Malec's Dodecameron (1970) just fail to get into the timeframe. I don't find Caroline Shaw's piece particularly original or interesting.

Thanks for those pointers, none of which I've come across, apart from Nuits. There was a story going about that students attending a performance of Nuits - maybe the premiere - a few miles down the road, were moved to march on Paris and, effectively, trigger off the évenments of May '68!