Just recovering from the shock.....

[LHC]

I didn't see this, but surely Songs and Dances of Death is by Musorgsky? Shostakovich did, of course, orchestrate the piano part so maybe this was the version played?

Yes, you are right, it was the Shostakovich orchestration.

[cat]

AS this was a BBC TV commission, I imagine the main criteria for the version used was that it should include the most famous arias and choruses, and last no more than 1 hour, as that was the only slot the TV controllers were prepared to give up, and that musical or theological coherence came a distant third and fourth.

I can still remember when the BBC showed the charity concert in commemoration of the Beslan schoolchildren, which also took place at the Coliseum, and they cut one of Shostakovich's Songs and Dances of Death in order to make the concert fit within a two hour timeslot.

To be fair to the BBC on this occasion they did have a double bill of 2hr+ Poirot films before this, and those obviously couldn't have been replaced with anything slightly shorter to yield e.g. a 90 minute slot.

[PeterboroughDiapason]

As far as "Nadine Benjamin's commitment to the words of "I know that my Redeemer liveth" is concerned, there was a well known quote from yesteryear along the lines of 'If you hear Isobel Bailey singing I Know That My Redeemer Liveth, you just know that He does....even if you're an atheist.'

I agree that Nadine Benjamin's singing of "I know that my Redeemer liveth" was the best thing in the programme. She avoided the overdone, unnatural-sounding ornamentation that some others indulged in.

(Interesting to wonder what Job meant by "I know that my Redeemer liveth" all those centuries before Christ.)

[cloughie]

To be fair to the BBC on this occasion they did have a double bill of 2hr+ Poirot films before this, and those obviously couldn't have been replaced with anything slightly shorter to yield e.g. a 90 minute slot.

Hercule in the cutting room? Mind his moustache!

[vinteuil]

(Interesting to wonder what Job meant by "I know that my Redeemer liveth" all those centuries before Christ.)

... it is indeed problematic. This has some useful thoughts -

http://thinkingthroughfaith.com/2017/10/27/i-know-that-my-redeemer-lives-but-who-is-it/

.

[PeterboroughDiapason]

It was a bit naughty of Jennens and Handel to incorporate it into an oratorio about Jesus - and to tack on the bit from Corinthians.

[Bryn]

It was a bit naughty of Jennens and Handel to incorporate it into an oratorio about Jesus - and to tack on the bit from Corinthians.

Well, Jennens was a licenced poet.

[Miles Coverdale]

Another shock on BBC2 this evening? Not one, but two programmes for elitist niche audiences, how did that slip under the radar and avoid relegation to BBC4?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000tzdt

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000tzcg

Nice to see former Hereford chorister Anthony Gregory singing Every valley.

[ardcarp]

It was a bit naughty of Jennens and Handel to incorporate it into an oratorio about Jesus - and to tack on the bit from Corinthians.

Speaking out of pure ignorance, is it not the case that Old Testament figures became adopted by Christian writers as prophetic of Christ? Isaiah of course, but I seem to remember reading that the Roman Catholic Church saw less of a 'divide' between biblical books than perhaps we do today.

Maybe I should shut up and let an expert speak!

[Miles Coverdale]

Speaking out of pure ignorance, is it not the case that Old Testament figures became adopted by Christian writers as prophetic of Christ? Isaiah of course, but I seem to remember reading that the Roman Catholic Church saw less of a 'divide' between biblical books than perhaps we do today.

Maybe I should shut up and let an expert speak!

The Song of Songs or Song of Solomon began life as ancient Persian wedding poetry; it was later co-opted by the Jewish tradition, which likened the bride and bridegroom of the text to the Jewish people and Jehovah. It was then co-opted again by the Christian tradition, which likened the two characters to the Church and Christ.

People are not averse to adopting things or passing them off as their own if it serves their purpose.

[Frances_iom]

The Song of Songs or Song of Solomon began life as ancient Persian wedding poetry; it was later co-opted by the Jewish tradition, which likened the bride and bridegroom of the text to the Jewish people and Jehovah. It was then co-opted again by the Christian tradition, which likened the two characters to the Church and Christ..

Interestingly Joe Smith, founder of the Mormons, when he started rewriting the Bible refused to accept the work as divinely inspired - possibly one key figure being 'black and comely' was somewhat inconvenient to his mission in slave owning states.

[PeterboroughDiapason]

is it not the case that Old Testament figures became adopted by Christian writers as prophetic of Christ?

Maybe I should shut up and let an expert speak!

Though Jesus, himself, early on in his ministry according to Luke (chapter 4) read from Isaiah ("The Sprit of the Lord is upon me....") and then said "Today this scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing".

[Miles Coverdale]

For most of its existence, the Mormon Church denied the status of 'priesthood' to black men. In this context, 'priesthood' is not a clergy rank but a status achieved by nearly all male members. In the 1970s, the Church came under increasing pressure to end this discriminatory practice until, in 1978, a 'revelation' was suddenly received that it was OK for black men to join the 'priesthood' after all.

Now I'm not cynical at all, so I'm sure that the fact that this happened when the Church was in danger of losing its tax-exempt status because of this discrimination is entirely coincidental.

[Frances_iom]

have a look at a little known but contemporary book

http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/fulltext/gu1852/abdy.htm

[Triforium]

Then there is the Mountain Meadows Massacre perpetrated by the Mormons.