Chapel of St John’s College, Cambridge [A] 17.ii.21

[DracoM]

Chapel of St John’s College, Cambridge
ASH WEDNESDAY

First broadcast 6 March 2019


Order of Service:


Responses: Byrd
Psalm 51: Miserere Mei, Deus (Allegri)
First Lesson: Isaiah 1:10-18
Canticles: The Short Service (Weelkes)
Second Lesson: Luke 15: 11-32
Anthem: Ne irascaris, Domine (Byrd)

Voluntary: Prelude in E minor, BWV 548i (Bach)

James Anderson-Besant (Junior Organ Scholar)
Andrew Nethsingha (Director of Music)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002zvr

[cat]

As you say first broadcast in 2019, and also released on CD last year. Perhaps it would have been nice to have dug something out from further back in the archives, as Ash Wednesday is of course usually a live broadcast so there is rarely a chance to hear repeats of these services from previous years.

[oddoneout]

As you say first broadcast in 2019, and also released on CD last year. Perhaps it would have been nice to have dug something out from further back in the archives, as Ash Wednesday is of course usually a live broadcast so there is rarely a chance to hear repeats of these services from previous years.

I would have preferred a service without the Allegri...

[jonfan]

A service from somewhere else, or maybe there isn’t one in the archives! As good as St John’s always is there are other choirs available.

[subcontrabass]

I would have preferred a service without the Allegri...

Perhaps occasionally we might even have something closer to authentic Allegri.

[organista]

Perhaps occasionally we might even have something closer to authentic Allegri.

But IIRC there was (from New College) but it wasn’t well received on this message board. You just can’t win, so perhaps best not to rock the boat.

[Simon Biazeck]

Perhaps occasionally we might even have something closer to authentic Allegri.

I quite agree, although I feel some might feel short-changed if they didn't hear the conjealed Frankenstein's monster that is widely known as "Allegri's Miserere." In lieu of singing Allegri's original falsobordini based on Tonus Peregrinus (NB!) - https://ancientgroove.co.uk/freebies...i_ORIGINAL.pdf - perhaps call it 'after a setting by Gregorio Allegri'... ? At least that acknowledges the history of its evolution. Another alternative might be to sing the so-called "Evolutionary Score" which the The Sixteen recorded off the back of Timothy Byram-Wigfield's research. https://ancientgroove.co.uk/essays/allegri.html That would be a stretch for even the best choirs, but I'd love to hear St John's sing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arf5vwZI4BQ

Also, a very enjoyable video presented by Elam Rotem of Early Music Sources:

https://www.earlymusicsources.com/youtube/falsobordone

I don't want to spoil people's appreciation of what has become traditional; just some info. for the unitiated.

SBz.

[DracoM]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arf5vwZI4BQ

Like that a lot. THx.

[Simon Biazeck]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arf5vwZI4BQ
Like that a lot. THx.

[cat]

In the booklet notes accompanying the CD release of this service Andrew Nethsingha describes his rationale for not programing some other version:

"A regular feature of the service is the singing of Gregorio Allegri's famous setting of Psalm 51, Miserere mei, Dei. The evolution of this work is described later in the booklet by our Organ Scholar, James Anderson-Besant. Some choirs treat it as a set of variations, with different embellishments in each verse. That is interesting in a concert, or as part of an academic study. However, in an act of worship, my strong preference is to stick with the one familiar version throughout, despite its lack of strict authenticity. The aim is to conjure up a hypnotic, repetitive, healing atmosphere, in which waves of sound wash over the listener without surprises. This is conducive to meditation, to reflection, to worship - for believers it cleanses the soul, and that is at the heart of the Lenten journey..."

TBH I don't understand the fuss about authenticity with this. No one complains about Once in Royal commencing with a solo contrary to Gauntlett's 1849 edition, or the fact that Charles Wood added a fourth verse to Jesus Christ Is Risen Today.

[BasilHarwood]

There’s also this new video from the Marian Consort which goes some way to explain things... Also features Ancient Groove’s Ben Byram-Wigfield.

https://youtu.be/h6hD8YtO5HI

[Simon Biazeck]

In the booklet notes accompanying the CD release of this service Andrew Nethsingha describes his rationale for not programing some other version:

"A regular feature of the service is the singing of Gregorio Allegri's famous setting of Psalm 51, Miserere mei, Dei. The evolution of this work is described later in the booklet by our Organ Scholar, James Anderson-Besant. Some choirs treat it as a set of variations, with different embellishments in each verse. That is interesting in a concert, or as part of an academic study. However, in an act of worship, my strong preference is to stick with the one familiar version throughout, despite its lack of strict authenticity. The aim is to conjure up a hypnotic, repetitive, healing atmosphere, in which waves of sound wash over the listener without surprises. This is conducive to meditation, to reflection, to worship - for believers it cleanses the soul, and that is at the heart of the Lenten journey..."

TBH I don't understand the fuss about authenticity with this. No one complains about Once in Royal commencing with a solo contrary to Gauntlett's 1849 edition, or the fact that Charles Wood added a fourth verse to Jesus Christ Is Risen Today.

Fuss? There's no "fuss". Aside from my dislike of what it's become (an expression of taste), it's just very interesting to me (and others) and as my post makes clear - each to their own.

SBz.

[cat]

Fuss? There's no "fuss". Aside from my dislike of what it's become (an expression of taste), it's just very interesting to me (and others) and as my post makes clear - each to their own.

SBz.

I wasn’t referring to your post, just the general sense that whenever anyone mentions this piece on social media or whatever, there will generally be comments from people saying they can’t stand it and from people saying it’s not authentic. Which is fine of course, it does have an interesting history, but I just find it rather surprising that it seems to have the Marmite effect. FWIW I think it’s ideally suited to the commencement of Lent.

[Simon Biazeck]

I wasn’t referring to your post, just the general sense that whenever anyone mentions this piece on social media or whatever, there will generally be comments from people saying they can’t stand it and from people saying it’s not authentic. Which is fine of course, it does have an interesting history, but I just find it rather surprising that it seems to have the Marmite effect. FWIW I think it’s ideally suited to the commencement of Lent.

Understood. Yes, I suppose we should be grateful that there's any choral music at this time. Such a pity that this can't be a direct broadcast. I am such a geek, that the musicology fascinates me. I wonder if there are any live relays on the www tomorrow... ? Must do a search.

SBz

[mopsus]

There was a reconstruction performed by Le Poème Harmonique in an episode of the Early Music Show in October 2019 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0009jz4, not currently available). My impression was that it wouldn't be practical to perform it that way unless the performers were really practised in the style of that time and place.