Composing for choirs

[Antiphon]

Wondering if there are any choir music composers on this forum? I'm looking for a choral virtual sample library that has sounds akin to the Tallis Scholars/Gabrieli Consort/Ex Cathedra/Taverner Choir, etc. Have heard of Oceania,Voxos,Voices of Prague but unsure if any of these are up my street. Suggestions welcomed.

[Dave2002]

I'm not a composer and definitely not a choir composer, but you can find demos of some of these sample libraries.

For examples:

Voices of Prague - https://soundcloud.com/virharmonic/sets/vop-demos

Voxos - https://cinesamples.com/product/voxos-epic-choirs

Oceania - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWH_Ai4rICo

There are several (many) others - including this one from Spitfire - https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a...?v=LifAOjktvlc

Several are specifically aimed at cinematic productions, and make a reasonable stab at Latin - so arguably good for Karl Jenkins.

Getting anything as good as the Tallis Scholars, Taverner Choir or the Dunedin Consort would be very challenging.

See also https://professionalcomposers.com/best-choir/ I think the Hollywood East West one may be good, but expensive.
There are some free ones, but don't expect too much from them.

[ardcarp]

Wondering if there are any choir music composers on this forum? I'm looking for a choral virtual sample library that has sounds akin to the Tallis Scholars/Gabrieli Consort/Ex Cathedra/Taverner Choir, etc. Have heard of Oceania,Voxos,Voices of Prague but unsure if any of these are up my street. Suggestions welcomed.

I'm not quite sure what you are after, Antiphon. Is it contemporary music that sounds like old music? If so, you haven't got to look very far!

Choral composition, like most composition is in what I'm sure will, with hindsight, be seen as something of a rut. Rutter is brilliant at writing for voices, and there are many others like, for instance, Bob Chilcott, who understand the ranges and timbres which suit singers best. The Latvian tendency likewise. The age of the mid 20th C when Britten was at his best (think A Boy was Born) and the likes of Leighton were around actually tested singers' musical ability. I don't know if anyone remembers the John Alldis Singers who tackled stuff which was often extremely difficult.* It's probably one of those silly cliches, but getting the notes right isn't much of a problem nowadays...it all tends to be lovely sounds. Nothing wrong with that, I suppose, and I guess someone will now point out some examples which are totally contrary to what I've just said. However for me, someone like Judith Weir strikes a good compromise, and indeed has a most characteristic musical language, which I like very much.

* The small professional group Exaudi is one of the few tackling 'difficult stuff', having premiered works by Sciarrino, Rihm, Finnissy, Frey, Posadas, Oesterle, Crane, Dusapin, Ferneyhough, Gervasoni, Skempton, Pesson, Poppe, Mažulis and Fox among many others. Worth going to hear them if you get the chance
even if only to boggle at their amazing technical skill and musicianship.

[Roslynmuse]

Exaudi on the New Music Show last night:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000r3dn

[Dave2002]

I'm not quite sure what you are after, Antiphon. Is it contemporary music that sounds like old music? If so, you haven't got to look very far!

I thought our OP was looking for a sample set to play with a system such as Sibelius or in a DAW which would enable the sound of choirs to be represented by a computer system. A major problem arises if there are words set - though even just getting the "basic" sounds right is hard.

There are many very good modern choirs which can peform a wide variety of music, both new and old.

[BasilHarwood]

I thought our OP was looking for a sample set to play with a system such as Sibelius or in a DAW which would enable the sound of choirs to be represented by a computer system. A major problem arises if there are words set - though even just getting the "basic" sounds right is hard.

There are many very good modern choirs which can peform a wide variety of music, both new and old.

Yeah, they are clearly looking for an electronic sample library.

The Spitfire Audio ‘EW choir’ is very good.

The soundtrack to the recent ‘His Dark Materials’ on the BBC used RHODOPE 2’s Ethnic Bulgarian Choir - https://www.strezov-sampling.com/products/view/rhodope2.html

[ardcarp]

Sorry. Being of the wrong generation, I got he wrong end of the stick. Still pencil and m/s paper for me.

However I should have mentioned another Judith, Judith Bingham. Her 'Epiphany' (which I first heard on a CD Epiphany from St Paul's, released 2001, with John Scott in charge) is a fabulous piece. So much contemporary music seems devoid of rhythm...but not here.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Wondering if there are any choir music composers on this forum?

Garbriel Jackson springs to mind, but he last posted on the forum some 14 months ago.

[Magister Chori]

Wondering if there are any choir music composers on this forum?

I'm a published, award-winning composer, but I'm afraid I can't be of some help: I've never attempt to use anything else than notational softwares like Finale and Sibelius to just engrave my own music because I find all these virtual choral samples quite unsatisfactory and - after all - useless, as they can hardly reflect the real possibilities - and most of all the limitations - of a real choir.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Until I read this strand I had no idea that there were virtual programmable digital choirs . Are they real choirs that have been sampled or are they completely computer generated?

[BasilHarwood]

Until I read this strand I had no idea that there were virtual programmable digital choirs . Are they real choirs that have been sampled or are they completely computer generated?

Real choirs that have been sampled. Takes an age to record and programme.

They are used by composers for numerous things - mock-ups of a soundtrack before live recording takes place, when they can’t afford a choir, pop music, etc etc. They are mainly a selection of vowels and different articulation. Getting words is (almost) impossible.

[Dave2002]

Until I read this strand I had no idea that there were virtual programmable digital choirs . Are they real choirs that have been sampled or are they completely computer generated?

Possibly could be either. I think most are real choirs which have been sampled - at various levels - with maybe soloists, groups of 2 or 3, etc. It gets quite complicated when words are involved, rather than just some form of vocalise. I agree with magister chori (msg 9) that mostly these are useless - and if one has access to real choirs to write for and perform with then there might be no point. OTOH some people might find them helpful.

If you've not explored/experienced this kind of thing before you might find this of some (not a lot?) of interest - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsJC7lHNBKs
I suggest not bothering with this from the start, but try at 12 minutes in, or 15 minutes in, where you might see some examples with the appropriate sounds generated. This is using the East West Symphonic Choir with Sibelius.

There is a lot of detail in the video which you don't need to bother with unless you really want to do this, so I don't recommend actually watching the whole thing - not even from 15 minutes right to the end. There's obviously a lot of work to do to get anything musical which might be of any use by this kind of process. Perhaps as a kind of aural sketch this approach might be useful.

Sampled instruments are, IMO, often a lot better, though again it depends on the instruments, and the groupings required. I think it's hard to get good string sounds.

For a vocalise style rendition of a piece by Byrd see https://musescore.com/user/15603/scores/1277391 Ave verum. It's not really very good - as mentioned in msg 9, but shows the kind of thing that some people do.

Here is an example of a full orchestra - not great - but arguably passable - https://musescore.com/openscore/scores/5271023
Here is a much better example of the same piece on Soundcloud - rendered by NotePerformer - https://soundcloud.com/noteperformer...er-holst-the-1

It is possible to compare real orchestras with simulated ones by checking through Soundcloud.

[Miles Coverdale]

Surely the ne plus ultra of this particular artform is to be found here, where someone, who clearly had far too much time on his hands, has synthesized the whole of the St Matthew Passion. If you like Bach 'performed' by Japanese manga characters singing in weird, robotic German, this is the video for you.

[Dave2002]

Surely the ne plus ultra of this particular artform is to be found here, where someone, who clearly had far too much time on his hands, has synthsized the whole of the St Matthew Passion. If you like Bach 'performed' by Japanese manga characters singing in weird, robotic German, this is the video for you.

Wow! It’s certainly “different”! Pretty horrible, too. I managed about one minute of that.

[ardcarp]

Ghastly. Utterly ghastly.
I'd just listened to Rebecca Clark's Lullaby for violin and piano....mood music for bedtime.....and then