A Festival of Nine Lessons and Carols [L] 25.xii.2020

[mw963]

Yes, jonfan....good last Q.
I listened via headphones too and thought it a fine broadcast - did not detect compression at all. Hmm?

So do you not notice the similar effect every Sunday morning on Radio 4 Sunday Worship?

[Pulcinella]

I spotted the missing 'so' (but I was following the booklet, which helped), and also the changes in In dulci:
O Jesu parvule [O tiny Jesus]
I yearn for Thee alway;
Listen to my ditty,
O puer optime! [O best of boys]
Have pity on me, pity
O princeps gloriae! [Prince of glory]
Trahe me post te! [draw me unto thee]

While not disputing the tempo indication for Adam lay, I thought that the slower tempo really worked, creating a sense of wonder and mystery that can be lost in a faster 'matter-of-fact' performance.
Loved the Moore, and intend to listen to it specifically again today, if I remember!
Was that first performed last year? I missed the service then, as we were at York Minster's own, and we were en route to Australia on Christmas Day, so I didn't hear the repeat.
Glitch with my Sonos app (trying to add another room near the end) so I missed the Chilcott.
The readings may have been in the chapel, but I don't imagine that they were by the originally designated people, though.

Altogether an absolutely splendid effort all round.

[mw963]

How were you listening? .

I was listening on DSat.

A quick history: compression/network processing was introduced to Radio 4 FM in the early 90s. For a number of years they actually made a point of switching off Optimod FM (as it was then) for the Nine Lessons, the only time in the year it was bypassed. Famously one year they forgot and had to turn it off half an hour into the service, which could be detected with sharp ears as switching it on and off (as set up at that time) introduced a short mute into the programme, so was done between items.

Then along came digital, and for a number of years Radio 4 DSat (from 1999), and then Freeview (2003) were left unprocessed and used to sound superb. In about 2006 unfortunately even these were brought under the compression umbrella, and in any case by that time the derogation for Nine Lessons had long gone.

Radio 3 Digital (DSat and Freeview) are left uncompressed - so the music has its full dynamic range. Radio 3 FM has been compressed for years (since 1989). Radio 3 DAB in the not too distant past has changed, it used to carry the same clean version as the other digital platforms, but as I discovered belatedly when I put some meters across it a few months ago (it's not my preferred method of listening) things have changed; I gather that is no longer entirely untouched, but that it has a separate regime to that of FM, where the DAB audio level is brought up a bit but (assuming this is correct) with hard limiting (which nowadays can be quite benign, in spite of its name); this differs from the FM "compression".

Last time I checked non-live Radio 4 stuff on BBC Sounds it had the same processing as the live DSat, but as I no longer listen to Radio 4 it's possible that's changed. There was at least one Nine Lessons some year ago when internet listening was relatively new, where the BBC put a special HD feed of the Nine Lessons on the internet, and it sounded superb. If they're doing something similar now then so much the better, but certainly if listening on FM or DSat or (I imagine) Freeview or DAB the compression yesterday would have been obvious. That said, it's become so much a part of the way radio sound is nowadays that I'm not surprised that it could be missed, although one would have thought that people as familiar with the sound of choirs would have been aware of it. As @ cat above is.

In any case I shall be pleased to listen to the Radio 3 version later today, and am delighted that something as fine as yesterday was rescued from the embers of this year, in order that the tradition was kept going under the circumstances.

[oddoneout]

I watched the TV version yesterday and will listen to the 'real'(radio) version repeat today. Although the finer points of the discussion above go over my head I have been having quite a few problems with the FM signal the past couple of days so perhaps need to try again to make sense of getting the DAB alternative - the manual is wordy but still doesn't make much sense when I try to action the steps. I haven't bothered in the past as it wasn't an improvement (for my purposes, seemed just as likely to have extraneous noises and varying sound levels) on the FM, but the current bouts of hissing at varying volume levels and complete drop-outs on occasion are beyond irritating now.
I am relieved to see that In the Bleak is a different setting for the radio, because the Holst version on TV was got at by someone called Mack Wilberg and I hated it - crashing crude dissonant chords from the organ bearing no relation to the vocal lines, couldn't stand to hear that again.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I was listening on DSat.

A quick history: compression/network processing was introduced to Radio 4 FM in the early 90s. For a number of years they actually made a point of switching off Optimod FM (as it was then) for the Nine Lessons, the only time in the year it was bypassed. Famously one year they forgot and had to turn it off half an hour into the service, which could be detected with sharp ears as switching it on and off (as set up at that time) introduced a short mute into the programme, so was done between items.

Then along came digital, and for a number of years Radio 4 DSat (from 1999), and then Freeview (2003) were left unprocessed and used to sound superb. In about 2006 unfortunately even these were brought under the compression umbrella, and in any case by that time the derogation for Nine Lessons had long gone.

Radio 3 Digital (DSat and Freeview) are left uncompressed - so the music has its full dynamic range. Radio 3 FM has been compressed for years (since 1989). Radio 3 DAB in the not too distant past has changed, it used to carry the same clean version as the other digital platforms, but as I discovered belatedly when I put some meters across it a few months ago (it's not my preferred method of listening) things have changed; I gather that is no longer entirely untouched, but that it has a separate regime to that of FM, where the DAB audio level is brought up a bit but (assuming this is correct) with hard limiting (which nowadays can be quite benign, in spite of its name); this differs from the FM "compression".

Last time I checked non-live Radio 4 stuff on BBC Sounds it had the same processing as the live DSat, but as I no longer listen to Radio 4 it's possible that's changed. There was at least one Nine Lessons some year ago when internet listening was relatively new, where the BBC put a special HD feed of the Nine Lessons on the internet, and it sounded superb. If they're doing something similar now then so much the better, but certainly if listening on FM or DSat or (I imagine) Freeview or DAB the compression yesterday would have been obvious. That said, it's become so much a part of the way radio sound is nowadays that I'm not surprised that it could be missed, although one would have thought that people as familiar with the sound of choirs would have been aware of it. As @ cat above is.

In any case I shall be pleased to listen to the Radio 3 version later today, and am delighted that something as fine as yesterday was rescued from the embers of this year, in order that the tradition was kept going under the circumstances.

Optimod did sound awful but even before it’s introduction there was compression used constantly on Radio 4 in the 80’s (as there was on Radio 3 ) and as there still is even on the DAB . But that compression is put in during the recording process . Firstly by restricting the dynamic range though manipulating the faders - boosting the troughs and limiting the peaks . Because it is virtually impossible to limit peaks on the fly compressors as far as I know still cut in when the signal reaches PPM 6 . Although the compression is subtler than on say POP networks it is still there . The art is to avoid that happening by anticipating the loud bits - that can be done by a full rehearsal - but that’s not always possible. . The sound engineer recording the nine lessons will still be restricting the peaks of the choir - unless she /he is producing two different versions - one for FM and one for digital . I think that’s unlikely but the digital TX version will still have a much wider dynamic range than on FM as on the latter there is further substantial compression in the transmission system ( or so I am told ) .You are right about optimod which was a crudish frequency linked compression system used to improve Audibility in cars and ( so say the cynics ) squeeze more out of a then limited FM transmitter network.
P.S I listened on R4 Fm and didn’t hear any untoward compression. Choirs are absolutely notorious for being very difficult to record and very difficult to record without distortion. The boys produce very loud peaks ...and sometimes unpredictably!

[DracoM]

<< I listened on R4 Fm and didn’t hear any untoward compression. Choirs are absolutely notorious for being very difficult to record and very difficult to record without distortion. The boys produce very loud peaks ...and sometimes unpredictably! >>

My experience exactly.

Improvisation on ‘Adeste, Fideles’ (Francis Pott) - now I see why Matthew Martin was drafted in!!

[PeterboroughDiapason]

I am relieved to see that In the Bleak is a different setting for the radio, because the Holst version on TV was got at by someone called Mack Wilberg and I hated it - crashing crude dissonant chords from the organ bearing no relation to the vocal lines, couldn't stand to hear that again.

I absolutely loved this! Wonderful chords.

[jonfan]

I am relieved to see that In the Bleak is a different setting for the radio, because the Holst version on TV was got at by someone called Mack Wilberg and I hated it - crashing crude dissonant chords from the organ bearing no relation to the vocal lines, couldn't stand to hear that again.

Absolutely agree. The original is fine as it is and a pity it is out of copyright to allow such tinkering. Perhaps start with the words and write a brand new setting as Bob Chilcott has beautifully done, to name one example. It's interesting how few performances sing the underlay Holst wrote in the penultimate bar.

[cloughie]

Just listening back to the Sussex Carol and comparing it to past years - I noticed DH uses the version that omits the "so" from "Then why should men on earth be so sad", which is perhaps in keeping with the much reduced tempo. In Carols from King's last year he took 2:24 compared to SC's 1:42! However perhaps he decided that was a little too slow, because in this 9LC it's done in 2:05.

When singing it our little group omit the ‘so’ - it just fits better! It’s probably my favourite carol!

[Magister Chori]

This year's service is also available to listen on the KCC webcast page:

https://www.kings.cam.ac.uk/choir/listen/webcasts

[Vox Humana]

I am relieved to see that In the Bleak is a different setting for the radio, because the Holst version on TV was got at by someone called Mack Wilberg and I hated it - crashing crude dissonant chords from the organ bearing no relation to the vocal lines, couldn't stand to hear that again.

Well, I thought it was rather lovely.

What I did think pretty gruesome, in the radio broadcast, was Lutoslawski's take on The holly and the ivy. Exactly what it was he was taking I shudder to think.

In general, though, lovely singing all round, both on the radio and the TV. As last year, the balance and blend were superb, and the speeds sensible and musical. The result was quite magical. Didn't Sir DVW say something along the lines of how he let the building tell him how to interpret the music? His choir suited the building like a hand in a glove and Daniel Hyde has reclaimed that feeling. Another bonus was that, this year, we had fewer of those little hiatuses between phrases that disrupted the flow of the music. There were some, but they were much more fluently handled and didn't disturb me so much. If I did have a niggle, it was the gradual slowing down of the descant verses of the hymns. I quite understand what he was getting at, but, honestly, if the last verse of 'Hark the herald' on the TV had slowed down any more it would have ground to a halt.

[PeterboroughDiapason]

and in general I found the organ playing quite resigned and without grit...

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I think more "gritty" playing would have been out of place. I thought the singing was really lovely and beautifully phrased. It matched the acoustics of the empty chapel perfectly and I thought the organ accompaniments were just right. Obviously the organ had to be "reined in" for the hymns but, again, I thought it complemented the singing perfectly. Incidentally, I thought the hymns were sung beautifully - not that many choirs can sing hymns on their own and keep them meaningful and interesting.

I wish it had been live, though, as I think there might have been just a bit of extra excitement - even if that's only in my mind.

[oddoneout]

I absolutely loved this! Wonderful chords.

That's as may be but did they have anything to do with either the words or Holst's setting?

[oddoneout]

I have never been much enamoured of the 'swimming pool' acoustics of Kings, but I have to say that I found the sound of this broadcast wonderful. The circumstances that led to the absence of congregation are regrettable but, for this listener at least, there was a positive.The resonance became a lustre and the sound of the echo travelling to infinity entrancing.
It would seem that it is the damping effect of the congregation that causes the muddying of the sound?

[ardcarp]

What I did think pretty gruesome, in the radio broadcast, was Lutoslawski's take on The holly and the ivy. Exactly what it was he was taking I shudder to think.

Me too.

the Holst version on TV was got at by someone called Mack Wilberg and I hated it

Me too.