Resumption of sung services in cathedrals

[Lizzie]

More often = Our!

[jonfan]

Wonderful and exciting news Lizzie. I'll certainly take a look. Many churches, and ours in a small way, have discovered that streaming services reaches people that would not, for various reasons, come to church at set service times. This must be for the good; out of necessity new ways of mission should be embraced.

[DracoM]

[oddoneout]

Wonderful and exciting news Lizzie. I'll certainly take a look. Many churches, and ours in a small way, have discovered that streaming services reaches people that would not, for various reasons, come to church at set service times. This must be for the good; out of necessity new ways of mission should be embraced.

An updated equivalent of/alternative to the broadcast radio services?

[Lizzie]

Indeed it is.

[Lizzie]

couldn't agree more, jonfan.

[Quilisma]

Winchester Cathedral have been singing for around a month now, and it's all going well. Our Boys, Girls, and Layclerks are singing as separate units, each socially distanced in the stalls. That way, if one Unit contracts the virus, it won't knock out the whole singing option for services. We've also had the WinColl Quiristers singing an Evensong, and one from the Gentlemen of the Chamber Choir. Prior to that, and for the Wednesday midday Eucharist, we have a Soprano Cantor, plus organ. No congregational singing of course. So far, we've been able to keep all our Musicians safe, and it's been an absolute joy to have them back, albeit in unusual circumstances.

All the Winchester Cathedral services are now livestreamed and we have an ever increasing, worldwide 'congregation' joining our services. The superb new tv equipment was, I believe, given by the Friends of Winchester Cathedral, and has revolutionised things for us. Not least in that congregations are sitting quietly until the organ voluntary is over, and the cameras turned off! A further joy from it all, is that we get to hear/see our DoM, Andy Lumsden, play more often Our! Our Virgers have learned to use the equipment and are producing some very professional, and imaginative camera shots around the Cathedral.

Do visit the Cathedral website, take the link in the worship section, and join us. Service details are all there too. Then you can give some feedback!

Best. Lizzie

Lizzie, I've been delighted to get glimpses of what is going in my old stomping ground of Winchester, and it goes without saying that I send my very best wishes to everyone in the Cathedral and at Win Coll. Live-streaming EVERYTHING is a very bold move! We are only live-streaming Sunday Eucharists and other special services (including all seven of the essentially identical solo-cantored Deacon Ordinations), largely because there is a not insignificant cost factor to be considered each time, particularly if a technician is hired in. The live-streams with the choir are typically removed after about a week in order to clear up any contractual doubt over whether we each ought to be receiving extra fees as we would have done previously if a service or event was recorded, filmed or broadcast. Our take on it is that it's not an unreasonable question by any means, but that so long as this is specifically for public service reasons rather than a "product", a live-streamed service doesn't really fit the criteria as categorised by the ISM for statutory recording, filming or broadcast fees, which understandably did not take into account the possible ramifications of a (then hypothetical) pandemic.

It's strange to imagine now that just a few months ago there were a select few institutions who were webcasting regularly, and just a couple which tended to webcast everything they did and had done so for well over a decade, whereas for the rest of us webcasting was either something which we felt inclined to leave to others or which we thought might be nice one day but would require plenty of logistical planning and investment. How things have changed! One wonders what knock-on effect of so many more institutions having at least some established live-streaming outlet will be for BBC Radio 3 Choral Evensong broadcasts in the longer term. Thanks to all sorts of uncertainties it has already become the case that the schedule of broadcast visits has to be planned at rather more short notice than was typically the case before (perhaps for decades), and I daresay "doubling up" while the opportunity exists has become more common. Perhaps it will get closer to some people's ideal of effectively eavesdropping on whatever regular evensong would have been taking place anyway in that particular establishment, rather than the sort of months-in-planning self-consciously "impressive" piece of "advertainment" which many on here love to hate. There is a healthy middle ground, of course; but in any case, regular live-streaming or other webcasting certainly seems to have the advantage of progressively warding off any complacency while making "real" broadcasts and recordings progressively less daunting and nerve-wracking.

Talking of which, it now turns out that this evening's concert, which I mentioned, a programme of "music from lockdown" featuring all of the Ely boy choristers, will be live-streamed, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Gh5IZnXAA. This Tuesday's and yesterday's (Thursday) evensong both included some of the very best collective singing I have heard from that team in just over seven years of my being here, so it could be worth a listen...

[Lizzie]

Lizzie, I've been delighted to get glimpses of what is going in my old stomping ground of Winchester, and it goes without saying that I send my very best wishes to everyone in the Cathedral and at Win Coll. Live-streaming EVERYTHING is a very bold move! We are only live-streaming Sunday Eucharists and other special services (including all seven of the essentially identical solo-cantored Deacon Ordinations), largely because there is a not insignificant cost factor to be considered each time, particularly if a technician is hired in. The live-streams with the choir are typically removed after about a week in order to clear up any contractual doubt over whether we each ought to be receiving extra fees as we would have done previously if a service or event was recorded, filmed or broadcast. Our take on it is that it's not an unreasonable question by any means, but that so long as this is specifically for public service reasons rather than a "product", a live-streamed service doesn't really fit the criteria as categorised by the ISM for statutory recording, filming or broadcast fees, which understandably did not take into account the possible ramifications of a (then hypothetical) pandemic.

It's strange to imagine now that just a few months ago there were a select few institutions who were webcasting regularly, and just a couple which tended to webcast everything they did and had done so for well over a decade, whereas for the rest of us webcasting was either something which we felt inclined to leave to others or which we thought might be nice one day but would require plenty of logistical planning and investment. How things have changed! One wonders what knock-on effect of so many more institutions having at least some established live-streaming outlet will be for BBC Radio 3 Choral Evensong broadcasts in the longer term. Thanks to all sorts of uncertainties it has already become the case that the schedule of broadcast visits has to be planned at rather more short notice than was typically the case before (perhaps for decades), and I daresay "doubling up" while the opportunity exists has become more common. Perhaps it will get closer to some people's ideal of effectively eavesdropping on whatever regular evensong would have been taking place anyway in that particular establishment, rather than the sort of months-in-planning self-consciously "impressive" piece of "advertainment" which many on here love to hate. There is a healthy middle ground, of course; but in any case, regular live-streaming or other webcasting certainly seems to have the advantage of progressively warding off any complacency while making "real" broadcasts and recordings progressively less daunting and nerve-wracking.

Talking of which, it now turns out that this evening's concert, which I mentioned, a programme of "music from lockdown" featuring all of the Ely boy choristers, will be live-streamed, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Gh5IZnXAA. This Tuesday's and yesterday's (Thursday) evensong both included some of the very best collective singing I have heard from that team in just over seven years of my being here, so it could be worth a listen...

Hi Q!
Glad you're well. I succumbed on 02 March, and was off work for a month. When I went back, we were all working from home, so I never went back to the office, till I retired in June. Now I can't go anywhere, or fulfill any of my retirement plans!

It was utterly horrible when the cathedral was locked to everyone, including clergy, and like so many, I felt bereft and abandoned. The D and C did their best, recording daily Reflections on mobiles, and some few services outside etc.

When churches were unlocked and we could have some music, Andy and our new Liturgy Clerk stepped in, and it was such a joy.

Now we have all the new gear, whole new worlds and opportunities have opened up, which has been wonderful. To the best of my knowledge, the Virgers are doing all the camera/sound work, and are doing a superb job. The services stay on the website etc, for about a week. Do have a look when you can.

It has enabled the cathedral to keep the big civic services going, albeit with much lower numbers, yet the regular congregation can still be part of the service online. Last week, three Ordination services, this week, Law Sunday. Now, if one is poorly, or off travelling, it means one can still 'go to' the Cathedral, anywhere in the world. Fantastic!

All in all, a marvellous opportunity and a huge joy and blessing. Now, I go to Church every day! Loving it!

[Andrew Butler]

But is there not a danger that people will stop going in person and places will become redundant?

And I’m sorry - I remain unconvinced; it’s just not the same. I liked things the way they were. Advent and Christmas - my favourite seasons - are going to be just horrid this year. And probably future years as well - some people will keep on with the “new normal” and some establishments (like two where I have been involved for many years) have probably had to shut up shop for good.

[Lizzie]

But is there not a danger that people will stop going in person and places will become redundant?

And I’m sorry - I remain unconvinced; it’s just not the same. I liked things the way they were. Advent and Christmas - my favourite seasons - are going to be just horrid this year. And probably future years as well - some people will keep on with the “new normal” and some establishments (like two where I have been involved for many years) have probably had to shut up shop for good.

Andrew, that doesn't seem to be happening. The normal congregation is there on a Sunday but, we're now gathering new people, for the Wednesday midday Eucharist, plus other new 'regulars', from all over the world, which is an immense blessing in spiritual terms. On a materialistic note, some of those are also donating to seriously depleted finances. There have been no redundancies either, which sadly has not necessarily been so elsewhere.

Things will have to be different, especially times like Easter, Advent, and Christmas, to maintain social distancing, to keep each other safe. I long to hear hymns in the Cathedral, sung with full congregational voice but, we are back worshipping the Almighty, which I began to fear would not happen in the foreseeable future, especially when laying in my 'covid bed'! Maybe, just maybe, the 'new normal', is where God wants us to be, looking outwards...
All the best. Lizzie

[Quilisma]

I think it should be fairly obvious that NONE of us is even vaguely proposing that what we are currently doing should any way replace what we normally do: it is emphatically NOT either/or, and we are emphatically NOT betraying anybody! This is simply an adjunct in these difficult times. There is no need for apologies.

[oddoneout]

But is there not a danger that people will stop going in person and places will become redundant?

And I’m sorry - I remain unconvinced; it’s just not the same. I liked things the way they were. Advent and Christmas - my favourite seasons - are going to be just horrid this year. And probably future years as well - some people will keep on with the “new normal” and some establishments (like two where I have been involved for many years) have probably had to shut up shop for good.

That was happening before Covid-19.
I agree it isn't the same and, like you I would prefer things to be as they were.The worship side of church services is not important to me(in fact some of it is anathema) and does not meet my spiritual needs, and so sitting at my PC to 'join' a virtual service won't happen, in the same way that I don't listen to a concert that way rather than on the radio or at a concert. However I also think that some of the responses various establishments have made to the crisis may well be of lasting benefit by providing opportunity for worship participation to those for whom 'real' attendance is difficult or impossible. It does also provide the chance to sample alternatives without strings or embarrassment - no need to deal with 'pushy salespeople' or worry about sitting when you should be standing!
The current arrangements may be unsatisfactory but they are a way of keeping things ticking over and providing continuity(and maintaining a profile) against the time when 'normality' - or a close approximation - can perhaps be resumed.

[Quilisma]

That was happening before Covid-19.
I agree it isn't the same and, like you I would prefer things to be as they were.The worship side of church services is not important to me(in fact some of it is anathema) and does not meet my spiritual needs, and so sitting at my PC to 'join' a virtual service won't happen, in the same way that I don't listen to a concert that way rather than on the radio or at a concert. However I also think that some of the responses various establishments have made to the crisis may well be of lasting benefit by providing opportunity for worship participation to those for whom 'real' attendance is difficult or impossible. It does also provide the chance to sample alternatives without strings or embarrassment - no need to deal with 'pushy salespeople' or worry about sitting when you should be standing!
The current arrangements may be unsatisfactory but they are a way of keeping things ticking over and providing continuity(and maintaining a profile) against the time when 'normality' - or a close approximation - can perhaps be resumed.

Quite right. Forgive me if I seem like a cantankerous broken record, but it seems to me that many of us in the profession are devoting huge amounts of attention to trying to ensure that we can at least be permitted to do SOME of what we would normally be doing (rather than nothing at all), that our choirs should be maintained and nurtured as much as possible through these terrible times, and that there is sustained behind-the-scenes lobbying to try to prevent the environment for liturgy and liturgical music from becoming even more hostile than it currently is; while on the other hand various people are very quick to criticise all of us for being willing to be flexible and temporarily adapt in preference to doing nothing at all, on the grounds that this puts our commitment to "the old normal" and to its devotees in question. I know that the internet can be a depressing place, but still...

The collective "argument" of our critics seems to be roughly as follows: (a) being positive and constructive about trying to find practical solutions in the current situation is deliberately insensitive towards people who find the current restrictions profoundly depressing and abhorrent; (b) there must be no "new normal", even temporarily, because this is an insulting betrayal of the "old normal"; (c) providing online options, even if it is explicitly aimed at catering for those who cannot attend in person by giving them at least SOME access, is "just not the same", but endorsing it by actually doing it constitutes an assertion that it is just as good as, if not better than, attending in person; (d) we are therefore making the situation worse and ensuring that more churches will stay closed for a lot longer and may never reopen because they have been judged to be superfluous on the grounds that very few people actually attend them, and we would actually prefer those churches to be made permanently redundant on the grounds that we have no respect for those who regard virtual alternative options as unacceptably inferior to attendance in person; (e) the biggest tragedy of all is that there will be no option this year for members of the public to attend world-famous "flagship" Christmas services at places like King's College, Cambridge, and that those of us who ARE doing everything we can to provide opportunities for attendance in person as well as virtually are clearly in denial about the extent to which others find the lack of an option to attend "flagship" Christmas services at places like King's an appalling travesty, and that, once again, "it's just not the same"; (f) this situation is so dire, and support for people who care about it is so lacking, that the only honest reaction is to feel inclined to abandon church music altogether after decades of dedication, on the grounds that those of us who think we are trying to keep church music alive in the most difficult of circumstances are in fact disingenuous opportunist iconoclasts; and (g) by endorsing a "new normal", albeit temporarily, we are putting ourselves in opposition to the "old normal", which is the only correct way.

I have to admit that my reaction to this kind of thing is very much along the lines of "oh dear"... I hope this collective "argument" does not reflect the views of anybody on here!

I tend to agree that the concept of "new normal" is horrid. I hope people can understand that we are emphatically NOT attacking or undermining church music or in-person church attendance by doing what we have to do under the circumstances in order to be able to function at all. We are doing something, which is remarkably close to what we would normally be doing, and it is infinitely preferable to doing nothing and giving up, or to defying the regulations and getting shut down.

Anyway, my initial thought was that our boys deserve a good rest after their extremely hard work in last night's concert and earlier in the week, but they actually have three further services to sing this weekend, all on their own, and I'm certain they will do so without the slightest hint of moaning. Far from letting down those who feel that virtual options are "just not the same", here we are warmly welcoming members of the public to attend Choral Evensong seven days a week, and Choral Eucharist every Sunday morning. The (temporary) "new normal" may well be "just not the same", and it is indeed a great shame, but we have no choice but to do all we can to ensure that the musico-liturgical Opus Dei continues undiminished. That is our duty and our mandate and it would be the height of arrogance and irresponsibility to shirk it.

[DracoM]

...........
Added to which is something even more sinister and extinctive in its implications: if the 'new normal' [] involves the absence of singers both children and adults, then sooner rather than later some 'Dean' or other supremo is going to say:

'Now look here, chaps, if we have no kids, no back row singing adults ['lay thingermibobs' as they call themselves],we have no need of a dep organist, or choir trainer, choir school, or transport, and - heaven preserve us - less parental interference - think how much money on vestments, heating / lighting / electricity, cleaning that is going to save us, besides cutting out the choir etc will keep down our tourist / visitors / congregation numbers and thus save us even MORE costs etcetc, eh?'

[Miles Coverdale]

The live-streams with the choir are typically removed after about a week in order to clear up any contractual doubt over whether we each ought to be receiving extra fees as we would have done previously if a service or event was recorded, filmed or broadcast. Our take on it is that it's not an unreasonable question by any means, but that so long as this is specifically for public service reasons rather than a "product", a live-streamed service doesn't really fit the criteria as categorised by the ISM for statutory recording, filming or broadcast fees, which understandably did not take into account the possible ramifications of a (then hypothetical) pandemic.

I'm not sure that the argument about receiving extra fees for webcasting/livestreaming is now a winnable one for musicians. These means of reaching existing and new audiences are now an essential tool for music festivals and cathedrals, and if performers are going to seek an increase in fees because a concert is being webcast, that may well make that concert financially unviable.

In the case of a cathedral service, it would not be reasonable to expect an extra fee if 200 people turned up to Evensong one day, so why should one expect an extra fee if those 200 people happen to be sitting at home listening via the Internet? There may be a parallel to be drawn here with services such as weddings. The old rule of thumb was that you received 50% extra if an audio recording was made, or 100% extra if it was videoed. Back then, of course, a professional videographer had to be hired in, and such fee increases were easy to police. Now that so many people have smartphones, it's essentially impossible to regulate, and one has to accept that a number of people in a wedding congregation will be filming all or part of the service. The only realistic way of dealing with this is to increase the basic fee.

In the case of cathedral lay clerks, they may have to seek a nominal salary increase to cover the possibility that some or all services may be broadcast in this way. Many cathedrals are struggling financially, and if musicians are going to seek a broadcast fee every time a service is webcast, that may ultimately put them out of a job.