For me, Vincent Nicholls has FAR more to answer for ref Drome.
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I would have thought it would be completely obvious that what I meant by "permissible" is "not in contravention of what is currently allowed by Government and/or Church regulations/guidelines at any given time". Understand that this is not a joke. I have made it as plain as it could possibly be that there can be absolutely no question of breaking the rules, whether or not we might personally agree with their being needed; apart from anything else, ignoring or defying the rules will result in us all getting shut down. At the very heart of what we are doing is a determination to show that it IS often possible to function as a choir while being fully compliant and safe. Guidelines for choirs and music in liturgy have gradually become more nuanced and much less uniformly prohibitive thanks to months of patient, calm, reasoned and persuasive lobbying behind the scenes: not through people defiantly disobeying them. We all long for the day when we can all go back to doing what we do without having to worry about something or other being prohibited. That day must eventually come (when the pandemic has subsided), but it will come much sooner if we continue to work within the current applicable rules than if we simply refuse to comply or assert that the rules are bunk and should be ignored.Originally posted by Andrew Butler View PostComment
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Yes: if we think things are restrictive over here it's not a patch on the situation in much of the USA, where several Episcopal dioceses have put in place a very strict prohibition on choirs in church for quite a long time ahead. I presume the other major denominations are taking a similarly draconian line, although I think the Roman Catholics are being marginally more permissive within safe limits. A singing friend of mine from Cleveland, Ohio, is so fed up with the general situation over there (musical and otherwise) that he has come over to spend six months in Cambridge! The trouble is that the COVID-19 situation in several places in America (especially big cities) is dire, and there are two very vocal lobbies: on the one hand, some people tend towards very strong emphasis on the need for identifying and eliminating as many risk factors as one can think of (not least to avoid litigation) in the interests of everybody's safety, and tend to believe that any sort of group singing is inherently and profoundly irresponsible and must be be out of the question; on the other hand there are those who very loudly insist that, whether or not COVID-19 really is "a fake-news hoax" (as they originally asserted), consenting to trust "the science" and comply with any health-and-safety precautions makes one "an enemy of freedom" and "anti-American", in league with "a far-left globalist conspiracy"... I know a few people in the USA who are in charge of running a choir or choirs, and right now, in this horrific situation and amid all this insanely toxic rhetoric, I really don't envy their position. Nevertheless, Jeremy Filsell is exactly the kind of person that St Thomas Fifth Avenue needs right now. Good luck to them all!Originally posted by DracoM View PostLast edited by Quilisma; 07-10-20, 11:18.Comment
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It's a pleasure, and that's kind of you: some (elsewhere) have been much less complimentary when I have dared respectfully to challenge some of their more outlandish assertions!Originally posted by oddoneout View PostComment
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Yes, of course I knew what you meant. It's just that (obviously wrongly it seems, according to some) I have LOVED over 50 years in church music. I liked it the way it was. I am too old and set in my ways to go along with this "New Normal" twaddle and "We're all in it together" My church work has effectively ended directly as a result of cutbacks caused by COVID and one of my churches being too frightened to reopen. It's fine though! My life is totally messed up by COVID and Brexit (thanks to an incompetent government I never voted for) but let some people be frightfully positive about it all! I'm going to see if I can cancel my forum membership, but if not perhaps Admin could do me a favour and chuck me out -away from all this infuriating positivity!!Originally posted by Quilisma View PostComment
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On the subject of obeying the rules, of course, a big theme recently has been those who set the rules and insist on compliance but then don't abide by them themselves. One might argue that this this is what they all do these days so there's nothing wrong with joining Club Hypocrisy oneself. But "if you can't beat them, join them" is not an acceptable way to go about things. So, for example, when his clients decided to ignore the clear legal advice that they had been given by at least two independent authorities by indicating their intention to breach (albeit "in a limited and very specific way") an international legal agreement which they themselves had co-written and had officially ratified, particularly after all the shocking shenanigans of last September, HM Procurator General would have known that remaining in post would be interpreted as condoning a hypocritical attitude towards the law at the highest level, and so he did the honourable thing.Comment
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I can assure you, Andrew, that I know EXACTLY what you mean, and empathise completely. I have been extremely fortunate to be in a place where the regulations have not prevented us from resuming altogether, but I know that very many people are in your position, and it breaks my heart. I too despise the idea of a longer-term "new normal", at least in terms of what choirs can and can't do. I don't think you can accuse me of being aggressively and insensitively positive when for several months it looked as if all of us were quite likely to be made permanently redundant. I spent much of lockdown sobbing inconsolably. And as for the B word, I quite agree with you, although I know that various people on here will probably condemn me for saying so. I have zero confidence in those in power and setting the agenda (here and around much of the world) and an overwhelming sense of shame at what is being done in the name of all of us. I retain some hope that those who are now very young might have the opportunity to pick up the pieces and repair at least some of the ruin which we collectively have caused to the world, and as custodians we must keep going for their sake... At least I had the better part of four decades of relative hope and positivity before the living hell of the past four years. I apologise most sincerely for having offended you. Please do not leave: our cause is the same cause.Originally posted by Andrew Butler View PostComment
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Andrew, please don't leave the forum. It is surely only right that we who follow it should know in what straits you stand. It is a desperate situation for which no-one, so far as I can see, has the power to remedy. Probably nobody here much cares for the 'new normal.' Having said that, surely a readiness to adapt to meet the needs of the moment - which is, I think, what Q's talk of following the guidelines while engaging in quiet, background diplomacy amounts to - is a constructive means of paving the way for an eventual return to better, more familiar conditions? And my apologies if what I say sounds like yet more 'infuriating positivity.'Originally posted by Andrew Butler View PostComment
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Thank you: yes, that is PRECISELY what I meant! There was, and presumably still is, a lot of carefully targeted and facts-led lobbying going on behind the scenes, in which those who draft applicable guidelines in the Government and in the Church respectively are furnished with more accurate information about areas in which their expertise and knowledge is (sometimes sorely) lacking. This is how the nonsensical ban on playing pipe organs in Wales (on the grounds that they are "blown") was overturned. It is all a very slow process, particularly when facing those figures who feel they have "had enough of experts", but there have been gains, particularly following the initial release of results from Declan Costello's clinical PERFORM study (although these are also open to both overly positive and overly negative interpretation), and finally it seems that official guidelines might start acknowledging that the internal volume and ventilation/draftiness of a space is a critical factor in level of potential transmission risk: while small, cramped, low-ceilinged, stuffy spaces might be very hazardous venues for group singing, huge, spacious, lofty, drafty spaces (like most cathedrals and many other large churches) might be minimally hazardous so long as other measures are being observed. There are all sorts of highly relevant variables, and guidelines should be reflecting this. And of course there is another thing: although one almost never knows for certain that nobody present is infected with COVID-19, unless there is at least some presence of the virus there happens to be no risk of contracting COVID-19 in that place at that time. Those saying that droplets and aerosol per se, and therefore group singing per se, carry an inherent very high COVID-19 risk have not understood this. But when it's a question of "follow the rules or get banned completely" one must follow the rules while perhaps, where possible, trying to offer helpful input to those who make the rules. There are plenty of people in the profession who have been very dedicated and patient in doing this.Originally posted by W.Kearns View PostComment
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There's a lot of determined people out there doing things to get singing in worship again and to a high standard. An example below from Trinity College, Cambridge, at an online service from their chapel last Wednesday.
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Winchester Cathedral have been singing for around a month now, and it's all going well. Our Boys, Girls, and Layclerks are singing as separate units, each socially distanced in the stalls. That way, if one Unit contracts the virus, it won't knock out the whole singing option for services. We've also had the WinColl Quiristers singing an Evensong, and one from the Gentlemen of the Chamber Choir. Prior to that, and for the Wednesday midday Eucharist, we have a Soprano Cantor, plus organ. No congregational singing of course. So far, we've been able to keep all our Musicians safe, and it's been an absolute joy to have them back, albeit in unusual circumstances.
All the Winchester Cathedral services are now livestreamed and we have an ever increasing, worldwide 'congregation' joining our services. The superb new tv equipment was, I believe, given by the Friends of Winchester Cathedral, and has revolutionised things for us. Not least in that congregations are sitting quietly until the organ voluntary is over, and the cameras turned off! A further joy from it all, is that we get to hear/see our DoM, Andy Lumsden, play more often Our! Our Virgers have learned to use the equipment and are producing some very professional, and imaginative camera shots around the Cathedral.
Do visit the Cathedral website, take the link in the worship section, and join us. Service details are all there too. Then you can give some feedback!
Best. LizzieComment
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