News from Sheffield

**ardcarp** · 02-08-20, 15:16

There is going to be a cataclysm of unemployment before the end of the year. The government furlough scheme had no conditions attached, so many employees, having been [quite rightly] supported by the tax-payer, will find that employers are not willing to keep them on their books. One wonders if that is an element of the Sheffield story?

**PeterboroughDiapason** · 02-08-20, 17:10

Originally posted by ardcarp View Post

PS On the subject of CE only being attended by a handful of people, since when did that bother anyone? Isn't it sung heavenwards? And why didn't anyone quote, 'When two or three are gathered together' ? A number which includes the choir!

Indeed - the Opus Dei is important, but it doesn't need professional organists and a cathedral choir - nice though that is. Difficult to justify spending that amount of money on a service which hardly anyone is at. Is that what the Almighty wants?

Yes, "when two or three are gathered together" - so a choir of one or two and a priest, or just two choir members doing the lot?

**ardcarp** · 02-08-20, 21:34

Hmm. It's a bit like Radio 3 isn't it. Dependant on listener figures and (in some areas) dumbing down in the vain hope of getting some. Following your logic, PD, one could go on to ask why we need expensive cathedral buildings with Deans, Chapters, Bishops at all the paraphernalia. It would be hypocritical of me to expound upon the Opus Dei, but it can surely take different forms from a barefoot person under a palm tree preaching to those who pass by, via Michelangelo's Pieta, via Monteverdi's Vespers to a top-notch cathedral choir.
It's late. I'm rambling.

**Pulcinella** · 03-08-20, 08:16

A report of yesterday's BBC interview in today's Times:

Axed cathedral choir ‘lacked quality’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/axed-cathedral-choir-lacked-quality-w0kpvl3vm?shareToken=494942d225809d7ae9ed18e1b71ca664

An Anglican choir that was disbanded to make way for more diverse singers was not always good enough, Sheffield Cathedral’s dean has said.There was an outcry last month at the decision to axe the traditional choir and form new choral groups that better reflect the “mixed urban community in which w

I do hope that the use of the word 'performances' comes reflects the newspaper rather than the dean and the choir member.

**PeterboroughDiapason** · 03-08-20, 08:39

Originally posted by ardcarp View Post

Hmm. It's a bit like Radio 3 isn't it. Dependant on listener figures and (in some areas) dumbing down in the vain hope of getting some. Following your logic, PD, one could go on to ask why we need expensive cathedral buildings with Deans, Chapters, Bishops at all the paraphernalia. It would be hypocritical of me to expound upon the Opus Dei, but it can surely take different forms from a barefoot person under a palm tree preaching to those who pass by, via Michelangelo's Pieta, via Monteverdi's Vespers to a top-notch cathedral choir.
It's late. I'm rambling.

I think the comparison with Radio 3 is a red herring. To quote Archbishop Temple: “The Church is the only society that exists for the benefit of those who are not its members.”

Yes, my logic could lead to questioning the need for "expensive cathedral buildings with Deans, Chapters, Bishops and all the paraphernalia". Of course we need the cathedrals and choirs but I wish the Church Of England had fewer buildings to maintain: if we were starting the CofE from scratch I'm sure it would be a very different church.

Whatever the circumstances at Sheffield, though, it seems to have been handled appallingly.

**ardcarp** · 03-08-20, 09:09

Hugh Morris, director of the Royal School of Church Music, told The Sunday Times: “It seems to me that to have an active vision for the future is a good thing.”

Waffle.

**mw963** · 03-08-20, 09:35

Cowardly waffle at that. Why can't people actually stand up for anything nowadays?

**Keraulophone** · 03-08-20, 10:24

"[The Dean of Sheffield] said that congregations were sparse for the choir’s performances during evensong services, explaining: 'On occasion they were singing beautifully but there was nobody there.' ”

This could apply equally to some of our Choral Evensongs, though 'nobody' is a slight exaggeration: maybe down to two or three in the congregation on a cold midweek evening in February, but no one down here is suggesting the choir is axed, quite the opposite. We are extremely fortunate that the D&C are doing their utmost to support our music department through these unprecedented times. Thankfully, Deans are not all alike.

**richardlongman** · 05-08-20, 17:05

Originally posted by DracoM View Post

Utterly echo every syllable.
'Dean' digging himself ever deeper into the pit he started.

PS Do the Shefff Cath supporters know how much support this Forum is giving them?

Yes, and we are very grateful! Thanks to you all. Things may be quiet for a short while but we are working furiously. We are not beaten yet!

**richardlongman** · 05-08-20, 17:06

Originally posted by ardcarp View Post

There is going to be a cataclysm of unemployment before the end of the year. The government furlough scheme had no conditions attached, so many employees, having been [quite rightly] supported by the tax-payer, will find that employers are not willing to keep them on their books. One wonders if that is an element of the Sheffield story?

There is certainly some murkiness in this area ...

**mw963** · 06-08-20, 08:46

Keep up the good work richardlongman. You're up against a Dean who seems to be a master of ducking and diving and obliquity. He mustn't be allowed to win. Certainly what I have heard of Sheffield in the past is worth preserving, more so than some meddling here-today-gone-tomorrow (*) Dean.

((*) I accept he's been there 17 years. Maybe no one else will have him......)

**DracoM** · 06-08-20, 10:13

**DracoM** · 07-08-20, 12:41

Try this:

Webcasts

https://www.herefordcathedral.org/webcasts

// Matins, Sunday 15 October 2023 This webcast includes Charles Villiers Stanford's anthem O for a closer walk with God. Open in pop-up player The texts of the psalms can be found here (opens in a new tab or window). Text of the anthem O for a closer walk with God, A calm and heavenly frame; A light to shine upon the road That leads me to the Lamb! Return, O holy dove, return, Sweet messenger of rest; I hate the sins that made thee mourn, And drove thee from my breast. So shall my walk be close with God, Calm and serene my frame; So purer light shall mark the road That leads me to the Lamb. William Cowper 1731–1800 We are very grateful to the Perpetual Trust for their support of the music of Hereford Cathedral. To find out more about the work of the Trust or to make a gift to further support our choral foundation please click here. About our webcasts The recording of services began in the autumn of 2015, when a new sound system was installed in the cathedral. These were made available on an occasional basis on our Soundcloud page. Our current aim is to make a different service available each month and, in this way, we seek to allow those unable to be with us in person to participate in the worship that is central to the life of Hereford Cathedral. It is important to note that in these recordings, the listener hears exactly what they would have heard had they been present at the service itself. No extra rehearsal is undertaken beforehand, and no editing takes place afterwards. An order for Choral Evensong can be downloaded here. We hope that you enjoy these ‘snapshots’ of the daily services at Hereford Cathedral. If you would like to be notified each time a new webcast is made available, please fill in this form. Archive An archive of our more recent webcasts is available here. To see all our previous webcasts, please visit our Soundcloud page.

**mw963** · 08-08-20, 17:39

I am still fuming over Sheffield, and it suddenly occurred to me to look at the Friends of Cathedral Music website for their statement on the subject; (they now call themselves the Cathedral Music Trust).

Well I looked in vain, I can see nothing. If someone can point me to anything official from them I'd be grateful.

If they are in fact silent on the matter I will probably be reviewing my subscription to them which goes back twenty years now. But maybe I'm missing something - let's hope so.

(There is the odd individual comment that I can see via my limited access to Facebook (I'm not a Facebook member)) but I'm looking for their official line on the subject.)

**Alison** · 08-08-20, 18:53

Rightly or wrongly, I’m putting the Dean in the same Venn diagram as Prince Andrew.

That’s to say: not really a bad bloke but used to having his own way with hardly any awareness of how behaviour appears to the masses.

News from Sheffield

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